Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Hello and welcome to Parenting Matters. Real talk from toddlers to teens. I'm your host, Rebecca Walsh, director of Early Childhood Matters in San Francisco, and I'm joined by my longtime mentor and co host, Belan Gioreto.
Together, we're here to answer your parenting questions from the early years through adolescence. As seasoned and humble parents and early childhood educators, we bring over 50 years of combined experience in teaching, directing, and coaching parents.
We started this podcast to help you raise resilient, confident kids and teens and to give you practical tools that can increase your confidence, effectiveness, and your joy in parenting.
This is Real Talk where we share multiple strategies because every child is unique, and we always explore what to try when just nothing else seems to be working.
So let's get real and let's get to it.
All right, welcome back, everybody.
So nice to be back here together. We have had a lot of questions come in lately around ignoring people behaviors, and I feel like this is something as a parent educator, I heard a lot from parents as well. Like this idea that a behavior that I don't like, I should probably ignore it as to not draw attention to it and make it worse.
[00:01:43] Speaker B: Yes. I've heard that too.
[00:01:44] Speaker A: Right.
And. Or like ignoring a tantrum. I've actually even had pediatricians say that the best response to a tantrum is to ignore a tantrum.
And I've certainly found that basically when you ignore behavior, you're really sending a message to the child that the behavior is acceptable.
[00:02:07] Speaker B: Either that or I can't be bothered, you know? Yeah, I, I'm, I, I don't know what to do, and so I'm going to do nothing. And. But it's really because I can't be bothered. And boy, children really pick up on that.
[00:02:20] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:02:21] Speaker B: It's the opposite of that is I care about you so much, I love you so much that nothing is more important than us working this through.
[00:02:31] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:02:31] Speaker B: And that is a very securitizing and loving message to send to kids.
Obviously, you, when you're entering behavior, you want to make sure that you're going to follow through.
[00:02:47] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:02:47] Speaker B: And that you're not going to start it and then just kind give up on it because your child is watching you. As Rebecca said, they're really watching to see how you react to things and they're learning from you. And if the message is I can't be bothered or I'm afraid of you because I don't know what to do.
[00:03:06] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:03:06] Speaker B: That's not a very safe message for kids to have.
Certainly there are you know a million behaviors that are going on during the day, and you have to prioritize and you have to decide, you know, again, that you're really going to follow through and that you're really going to, to make it. And sometimes you could say to a child, this is, this is not okay.
We're not going to talk about it right now, but we're going to come back to it. And then you, you must come back to it.
[00:03:38] Speaker A: Oh, yeah.
[00:03:38] Speaker B: You know, otherwise, as I was saying to Rebecca, I often would have children who would look at me like, you know what? You're a fool. They wouldn't say that, but they found adults very foolish. Why? Because adults never mean what they say. They never follow through and that, you know, they really can't be bothered.
And when kids would see the opposite from me or a teacher, that we, that nothing was more important, that we love the child so much that we would say, I love you so much, I want you to be a girl. That doesn't hit. Yeah, that was a very different message. And the look on the child's face when they realized, wow, she's not going to give up on me. She's really going to follow through was, oh, well, I guess I better, I guess I better listen.
[00:04:31] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah.
[00:04:33] Speaker B: And it ended up shortening things, you know, and again, you don't need to lecture, you don't need to over talk it. You, you, you, you can do it in just a couple of words, actually.
[00:04:45] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:04:47] Speaker B: But kids know when you have resolve, they know when you mean what you say, and they also know when you don't mean what you say.
And that's a really tricky thing about being a parent because you're on all the time and you are your child's window into how to be in this world, how to socialize, how to be with people. And, and it's an incredibly important job that parents have is the emotional and social development of their child.
[00:05:15] Speaker A: Yes.
Yeah. And I think some of these questions will get to that socialization part of, like if I ignore behavior in one situation, but then they do it in another, you know, how does that ignoring that kind of tend to backfire a little bit? Yes, but, yeah, I mean, I think to your point around when, when we care enough to set the limit and we really have to think of it like that, that it would be easier for me to just stay on this sofa and not get up and not follow through. But, you know, and I think our children are picking up on that and they feel, they actually feel loved when somebody is taking the time to go over and to support them when they know that they're doing something that is pro.
Breaking a rule that maybe isn't okay at school, and they're testing us. And when they see us not responding, it does. It sends a bit of a message to them that maybe they're not important enough to us.
[00:06:21] Speaker B: Yeah. I think, you know, so many parents want their kids to be happy, and they only want to have happy times with them, but it's good luck.
It's in these issues where there's a problem, where something has to be solved or something has to be dealt with that really shows the child, I care about you so much. In my family, my mother was the one that could set a limit, and my father wasn't. And I knew if I was just really obnoxious, that my father would give in because he truly was too busy and he couldn't be bothered. And the message I got from that is that my dad doesn't really care.
My mother knew better and would follow through in a loving but firm way. And, you know, myself and my brothers knew that she was the one that we could count on.
[00:07:15] Speaker A: So that's powerful.
[00:07:18] Speaker B: It's a very powerful thing. And it really helped develop my way of as a. As an educator and as a parent to see this as.
As loving and see it as loving being the meaning, not being the. You know, oh, you're an authoritarian.
No, you are an effective parent who cares about their child.
[00:07:41] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:07:42] Speaker B: And your child absolutely will. Will feel that.
[00:07:46] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:07:46] Speaker B: They might not say it to your face. Right.
[00:07:48] Speaker A: And they may not.
And they may not feel that or understand that even until much later.
But yeah.
[00:07:56] Speaker B: I just remembered a great story. My son came home after a play date, and he goes, mom, Tony's mother doesn't love him. And I said, what? No, he doesn't love her. And I said, well, what did you see? And he said, well, Tony had every box of junky cereal, and his mom lets him eat junky cereal, so I know that she doesn't love him. And I went, whoa.
Out of the mouth of children. Right? Yeah.
[00:08:26] Speaker A: And you had probably said, I love you so much.
[00:08:28] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:08:28] Speaker A: That I need you to eat healthy cereal.
[00:08:30] Speaker B: They got one box of junkie cereal a year when school.
[00:08:34] Speaker A: That's awesome. Yeah.
[00:08:36] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:08:37] Speaker A: They get it.
[00:08:38] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:08:38] Speaker A: Oh, they get it.
[00:08:39] Speaker B: And they're watching.
[00:08:40] Speaker A: Yeah. Well. And that. It also reminds me.
[00:08:42] Speaker B: Yes, that's a good one.
[00:08:47] Speaker A: Reminds me of a story from Raising Cane by Dan Kindland, and he tells a story of working with a group of teenagers. And what he found was that the kids that had a curfew were actually bragging about it to the other kids.
[00:09:04] Speaker B: Wow.
[00:09:05] Speaker A: Like, they. Because it was so.
[00:09:07] Speaker B: Oh, that's lovely.
[00:09:08] Speaker A: It was so securitizing to them. It is so. It's so hard. And not to your point, like, not. That doesn't mean that we're not going to ignore any single behavior. Like, if our child put something down too heavily instead of placing it nicely, you know.
[00:09:23] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:09:23] Speaker A: Maybe we're going to let that slide. I mean, you have a little bit of wiggle room here. You might not need to fold them in. Every comment they say, of course. I don't know if I like that tone.
[00:09:34] Speaker B: You find the balance, and you find what's really important for you and to you, to your family.
And this is how you create family values, and this is how you teach your child how to be in the world.
[00:09:49] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. And, you know, and just remembering, overall, that when we don't ignore behavior, we are telling our children that we love them. Yeah. And that we're here to help and support them.
[00:10:02] Speaker B: Right, right, right.
[00:10:04] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah.
You know, choosing your battles is another thing that can be sort of overdone. And if we. If we're not careful, we can end up not choosing enough battles and sending that same message to our children.
[00:10:17] Speaker B: Right.
[00:10:18] Speaker A: But I think the ignoring is a. Is a different piece that again, I hear a lot. In fact, I have a story.
One time I was at the zoo with one of my friends, and her. And I think our kids were about two and a half, and her son starts kind of wandering off, and I'm kind of looking at her and looking at him and, you know, kind of gently suggesting with my eyes that maybe she should move a little closer or, like, is he getting too far?
And she kind of said, oh, you know, I don't want to call him back, because if I say anything, he'll just run further. And I'm like, okay, I don't know how far you're gonna let him go. But anyway.
And then he finds a puddle, and he lays. And he's flashing in the puddle, which, okay, I don't usually have a problem with splashing in puddles. But then he starts laying down in the puddle, and I'm thinking, we're at a zoo, and we're actually not far from the petting zoo. And the kid is laying in the puddle. And I'm looking at her now, going, okay, now are you gonna say.
And she's just. She's actually like, Turned her head away from him, like pretending that she can't see him.
[00:11:29] Speaker B: Oh, that's a parent who's very afraid of their child.
[00:11:33] Speaker A: Right.
[00:11:33] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:11:34] Speaker A: And it gets worse. He starts drinking.
Yes. Drinking the puddle water.
[00:11:39] Speaker B: Shows how behavior escalates.
[00:11:42] Speaker A: Yes. When it's ignored. Yeah, exactly. And you could.
[00:11:45] Speaker B: So it's making a mountain. I always used to say, make a mountain out of a molehill.
The more you ignore it, the angrier you're going to be. The more frustrated you're going to be if you can deal with it. Short. Sweet. Right.
[00:11:56] Speaker A: When it's a smaller problem. Yes. My gosh, I love that. So the idea of make a mountain out of a molehill. Because it is easier to parent the way that we want to parent when the problem is the size of a molehill.
[00:12:09] Speaker B: Right.
[00:12:10] Speaker A: If we wait until the problem is the size of a mountain, like you said, we're going to be angrier. The child's all wound up. But, yeah. You could see this child was like, is she gonna stop me if I do this?
[00:12:22] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:12:22] Speaker A: No, she didn't stop me. Okay. Is she gonna stop me if I lay down in the puppy? She didn't stop me. Is she go. You know, and what does that say to the child?
[00:12:28] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah, it's.
I think we know what it says. I can't be bothered or I'm afraid of you.
[00:12:35] Speaker A: Yeah. And I. I mean, this was a very loving. I don't think she was. But her thing that she somehow interpreted that just ignore behavior. It will go away.
[00:12:43] Speaker B: And again, we're not talking about big over talking. Mor.
Punishing. It's just very short and sweet. Puddles are not for drinking.
[00:12:53] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:12:53] Speaker B: You want to drink water?
Let's find you some water.
[00:12:56] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:12:57] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:12:57] Speaker A: But the fact that she was ignoring that, it was like.
[00:13:00] Speaker B: Yeah. It's a really great example of what can happen and how far a child would go. Yes. A child will go. And they're far.
[00:13:07] Speaker A: Well, and they're looking for that.
[00:13:09] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:13:09] Speaker A: Like they want to know that someone's there to keep them safe.
[00:13:12] Speaker B: They may not. Thank you. Thank you, mommy, for setting limit. Yeah, Addie. But they're the security, support, and the love they feel. Someone is taking care of me. I'm a little kid. I don't know. You know, I need. I need guidance.
[00:13:28] Speaker A: Yeah. Okay. Well, let's go to some of our questions that have come in. So the first one is really around a slightly different version of ignoring. She says, my daughter does annoying things like begging on the floor loudly. And I usually ignore her. But sometimes it's so loud that I can't handle it anymore. If I tell her to stop or draw attention to it, she just does it louder.
[00:13:52] Speaker B: Actually, the more skills you get at setting limits, the behavior will reduce. The child won't need to test you like that. And that child obviously knows they're annoying their parent.
[00:14:04] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:14:04] Speaker B: And they're waiting for the parent to say something or do something. And again, it increases instead of decreases.
[00:14:11] Speaker A: Yeah. And again, it's like it gets louder because I think when you see that escalating behavior, it is kind of a cry for help. If you can think of it as a cry for help from your child. The behavior is escalating because they want a boundary.
[00:14:26] Speaker B: Right.
[00:14:26] Speaker A: They are actually asking you to set a limit on them, either because they're. They're dysregulated and they need some help with regulation, or it could actually be that they are just testing and they want to know that's their job, is to test. That's their job. And they want to know that somebody's there to keep them safe.
[00:14:46] Speaker B: Right.
[00:14:46] Speaker A: And again, you know, if. If they.
If they've done this in other scenarios and they've had that limit set and then they see the parent not setting it.
[00:14:55] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:14:56] Speaker A: It's also kind of confusing. Right.
[00:14:57] Speaker B: Very confusing.
And again, you're increasing behavior instead of diminishing it.
Not the child's fault.
It's the parent that really has to step up and. And help the child become socialized.
[00:15:14] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:15:16] Speaker B: That's our job.
[00:15:17] Speaker A: Yeah. So even in that scenario, I think we would recommend. Even though, yeah, she's not hurting. I don't know if she's hurting the property, but assuming she's not even hurting any property or doing anything like that, you also just don't want to ignore behavior if it's. If it's annoying you, because then you're also telling the child that it's okay to do things that are annoying to you.
That may translate to it's okay to do things that annoy other people.
[00:15:43] Speaker B: Yes. Or that people can do stuff that annoy the child. You know?
[00:15:47] Speaker A: Right.
[00:15:48] Speaker B: Using problem solving. And this would be great. Oh, we have a problem.
I always say, what is the name of the problem? And the kids absolutely say, oh, I'm banging too loud. How are you going to solve it?
Oh, I'm going to stop. Or I'm going to take this in my bedroom and do it in the bedroom and close, you know, so again, short.
[00:16:06] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:16:07] Speaker B: Getting the child to solve the problem.
[00:16:09] Speaker A: Not.
[00:16:09] Speaker B: Not you over Talking and over, you know, moralizing. Very, very quick.
[00:16:15] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:16:15] Speaker B: I had a child once who we were having a special friends day and so all these grandparents were there and we were in the hallway and this child started yelling swear words and the grandparents were horrified. You know, everybody in the hallway just froze. And the grandparents were appalled. And I was like, oh my God. So I just went over, I said, oh, we have a problem.
What's the name of this problem? I'm, I'm saying a bad word.
[00:16:43] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:16:43] Speaker B: How are you going to solve it? I'm going to stop, honestly.
[00:16:47] Speaker A: That's awesome. Yeah.
[00:16:48] Speaker B: But it was his. Instead of me saying, don't talk like that. That's not, it was all on him. If he had continued, I would have said, this is not acceptable. I'm going to have to take you outside or.
[00:17:00] Speaker A: Right, right, right.
[00:17:01] Speaker B: But it is astounding how powerful that method is and how once you start thinking of things like that, you start seeing these issues as problems and the child can help solve the problem.
[00:17:16] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:17:17] Speaker B: It's very, very, very empowering and really helps kids to socialize and have emotional intelligence as well.
[00:17:27] Speaker A: Yes, absolutely.
Yeah. And I think that will lead us to our next question because we do have a question about some swearing happening at home and some potty talk as well, which is a common one. I think that parents are not sure if they should ignore it so that it doesn't bring more attention to it. But I also just wanted to maybe just give a quick strategy for a child under three in that scenario because sometimes, you know, if they're still not quite verbal enough, I think even just redirecting them and saying to the child, oh, it looks like you want to bang. You know, here's something that you can bang on that and, and trying to find something that is still satisfying that urge that they have without it being annoying to you. I think our self care in that situation, it's, it's basically you're setting a boundary because it's, it's a self care
[00:18:16] Speaker B: boundary and you're modeling to the child about how you care for yourself. Yeah.
[00:18:21] Speaker A: And I love that you said that. You know when I said you're teaching the child that they could, that it's okay to annoy other people, but you're also teaching the child, like you brought up, that it's okay if people do things that are annoy me.
[00:18:34] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:18:35] Speaker A: I don't need to say anything. I don't need to stop them. Right. Because I can guarantee you that child can read your face and know that you don't like that behavior.
[00:18:44] Speaker B: Absolutely, absolutely.
[00:18:46] Speaker A: So you're telling your child, if you don't like something that somebody does to
[00:18:49] Speaker B: you,
[00:18:52] Speaker A: just ignore it. Don't say any. Right?
[00:18:54] Speaker B: Yeah. You can't do it.
[00:18:54] Speaker A: So those are such powerful lessons. But yeah, with a, with a younger child, it's just telling them, hey, it looks like you want to bang on something. It looks like you want to make some loud sounds.
Let's bang on. You know, and even just changing it from banging on the floor to banging on Tupperware. Sometimes I put the Tupperware on top of a pillow. Yeah, but there are ways that, to make it more tolerable for you that it just doesn't.
Doesn't cause that, that reaction. And, and also the parent said, sometimes I can't handle it anymore, which is usually the, the point at which we might yell at the child or, you know, and so like you said, if you can make the mountain out of the molehill.
[00:19:34] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:19:34] Speaker A: Start when it's smaller.
[00:19:35] Speaker B: And that gets a parent off the, the carousel of getting really angry, and then you get, you feel really guilty that you got over angry, and then you get depressed and that depression, anger, guilt, carousel is a horrible place to be as a parent.
[00:19:53] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. And so just knowing that there, you don't have to ignore it. There are other ways without making it worse, as the parent was worried that they were going to make it worse. Right. But there are other ways, and hopefully those are just a couple strategies you can try with a three and up and then an under three.
Okay, so like I said, we do have a question on the potty. We have two questions on the potty talk and then some maybe further swearing that's happening.
And so maybe I'll read them both and then we can answer them together.
[00:20:27] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:20:28] Speaker A: So my sons are really into potty words lately. They are 2 and 5, and it just gives them so much joy to say poo. Poo, Poo, poo. I have basically ignored it because it doesn't bother me. But when grandma comes over, she is horrified. Not sure how or if to rein this in.
And then in a similar vein, my son, 5, has started saying O, S, H, I, T and what the h in very appropriate times. I have been ignoring it to not draw attention to it, but he's starting to say it more and more. Okay, maybe the potty. The potty words first.
[00:21:06] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:21:08] Speaker A: Tackle.
[00:21:10] Speaker B: You know, every child goes through this phase here. We are loving to hear their words. Oh, use your words. Use your words, but not those words.
[00:21:18] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah.
[00:21:19] Speaker B: Yeah. So I. I get. From the child's point of view, it's very confusing and usually gets a laugh out of somebody. Yeah.
[00:21:25] Speaker A: Around them.
[00:21:25] Speaker B: And the delight that she's sharing about her kids. Loving to say that word. Part of it is, oh, wow, this. This word is. Some people don't like it. It's just a word.
[00:21:35] Speaker A: Yeah. Or it's guaranteed to make my little brother laugh.
[00:21:38] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:21:39] Speaker A: Right. That's powerful.
[00:21:40] Speaker B: Yes. Yes. And guaranteed to make my grandmother cringe. Yes.
So part of our job, again, as we said earlier, is socializing kids. And so, you know, we don't want to have such completely different rules at home than at school or, you know, with relatives or whatever, because that's confusing for kids. So I think what we're saying is, oh, you love these words. They're very funny to you. Not everybody likes them.
[00:22:09] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:22:09] Speaker B: Here's a place you can say them.
Yeah.
[00:22:12] Speaker A: I always found that to work really pretty well was to just say either the teacher. It was like, oh, you're saying potty words. Looks like you want to go to the potty, so let's go to the potty. You can say it as much as you want. And I would do that at home as well. I think in this case, you know, if there's two children doing it together, you could even say, you know, what it looks like you guys are having. You two boys are having so much fun with those words.
You can go into your bedroom and I'll close the door, and you can say, you know, poo, poo, poo, poo, poo, poo. As much as you want. But it's not a word that we're going to say around adults. It's not a word that we're going to say in our family.
But if you want to say that. And I find, like, you know, kids just don't really enjoy saying those words so much when they're in isolation, not having a reaction. Yeah.
[00:23:02] Speaker B: Yeah, good point.
[00:23:04] Speaker A: So, yeah. But also, I think that's the alternative to ignoring it, because sometimes we think, oh, well, I'm gonna ignore it because I don't want to make it too big of a deal. Well, I think if you also just say, oh, you want to say potty words. Let's go to the potty, and you could say it as much as you want. That's another way of not making it a big deal. Right. But still setting a boundary around it and teaching the child, like you said, socializing the child, that these are words that are not appropriate in every day. Not something that we're going to say at the dinner table. Not something that we're going to say at school or around grandma.
[00:23:39] Speaker B: And you'll know how much time you need to invest if your child runs away from you.
Laughs at you.
[00:23:47] Speaker A: Yes, thank you.
[00:23:48] Speaker B: And says it even more.
Your child is really kind of thumbing their nose at you and saying, you know, you're a fool.
You're not going to follow through. I can do whatever I want. And. And it's. It's scary for a kid to have that much power and not have that control. But that's something to watch with your kids. If you see your kids really not taking you seriously. In fact, just the opposite.
You got some work to do, and do it now. When they're young, don't wait.
[00:24:18] Speaker A: Don't exactly don't wait. Because the bigger they get, you know, the harder it is.
[00:24:24] Speaker B: Obviously, once these are established, especially not respecting adults, not expecting parents, you know, that's a very serious and very, very much in need of your attention.
[00:24:39] Speaker A: Yeah. And even though this, you know, probably seems very unserious, I've heard parents say this sometimes, like, oh, I just let them say those words. And, you know, it just kind of rubs me the wrong way.
[00:24:50] Speaker B: What about you?
Well, again, as I said earlier, our most important job is teach our kids how to be in this world. Socializing them and developing emotional intelligence.
That's a word that at a school setting or with grandparents or with relatives or whatever is. It's not appropriate.
And kids that have not had adults helping them know that are at a disadvantage.
[00:25:18] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah.
So. Right. So it is important. It's okay if, you know, you. You give them a space, they can say it. But we do want to not make a huge deal of it. Like, you may never say that word. That word's not okay. I don't like that word. But the alternative is not to ignore it. The alternative is what we just showed. There are alternatives.
Okay. So. And then the other one was actually saying, oh, shit, or what the H E double hockey stick.
[00:25:52] Speaker B: Yeah, that's a good one. Because again, we're like, use your words. Use your words. Oh, they're so great. They're talking and suddenly there's words that they. People don't like. And some kids really go to town with this, and some kids just never get there. So it depends on your child.
Obviously, if you swear in front of your child and you're teaching him these words, you have to make a commitment not to do that.
[00:26:17] Speaker A: Yeah. So I think if you're In a situation where one parent just isn't able to contain themselves, let's say. Or let's say, like, I've certainly been in the situation before where, as my kids have gotten older, where they may hear. They may hear things from time to time. And I think all of us, probably at some point, our parenting may say a bad word in front of our children or.
[00:26:39] Speaker B: Or more. I. I had a very hard time with this.
[00:26:42] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:26:42] Speaker B: Because I swear. And I realized if I didn't want my kids to swear, I was going to have to.
[00:26:48] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:26:49] Speaker B: Stop it. So we would make up words. You know, we had a lot of fun making up new swear words.
[00:26:53] Speaker A: Yeah. Cool. Yeah. So that's a great strategy, by the way, I think, to just, you know, flipping fish or, you know, kind of being creative with them.
[00:27:02] Speaker B: It was. It was fun, and it was somewhat successful.
Not quite as satisfying.
[00:27:07] Speaker A: Yeah, totally. But I think, you know, if you have. Or if your partner has said a word and then you find that, you know, they're repeating it just even from that one time, let's say. I think it's saying, mom said that word. It's really not an appropriate word for children to say. And it's not something that I want you to repeat. It's not something that I want to repeat, and it's something that I try not to say, but it's certainly not something appropriate for children to say. And it's kind of like mom's wine. Right. Like, that's something that I drink. It's not appropriate for children to drink. So that's kind of one way. And I mean, I've had zero calls about my child keeps asking me for my wine. Right. Because parents are so firm on that rule. They didn't have to taste it to find that out. It was just. The parents were 100% firm from the very beginning.
Absolutely. You cannot.
[00:28:02] Speaker B: And every time, when you are 100%, even if you don't say it inside, if you have that resolve, it's like kids running into the street. You don't see adults going, well, he likes the street. He likes to be in the street. I'm gonna just ignore it. No.
[00:28:17] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:28:17] Speaker B: Parents are very clear and very firm. And very rarely will a child then run back into the street unless they really think their parent doesn't mean it. But I think those are great models for you to follow, to remember that if you have resolve and you're fir.
[00:28:32] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:28:33] Speaker B: If. It's very rare that kids will repeat those kinds of behaviors, like drinking wine or running in the street.
[00:28:38] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:28:39] Speaker B: It's amazing how. Well, how appropriately they can use them.
[00:28:43] Speaker A: Yes, exactly.
[00:28:45] Speaker B: They get the context.
They're mimicking. They're. They've heard somebody say it. And, and this idea that there are bad words is, Is. I get it. For kids, it's like, what? Yeah, it would be bad.
[00:28:57] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:28:57] Speaker B: That's welcome, you know, to the world. And that's our job, is to socialize and help them understand what's acceptable and what's not so that, so that they don't.
When they're in a social setting, they're not at that disadvantage.
[00:29:11] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, exactly. And you, you know, we don't want them to be labeled as a certain type of kid.
[00:29:18] Speaker B: Right, right. So occasionally you'll get a kid, usually a very bright kid, who really goes over the moon with the swear words and says it constantly. I see.
[00:29:28] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:29:28] Speaker B: So I had a child who was very bright and he was obsessed with the word S H I T and said it constantly. His mother was at. Mortified and really at her wits end.
Again, very bright kid. And so I tried this and it worked. I sat him down and I said, you know, you're a boy who loves this word S H I T. So what we're going to do is write it down. You can say it as much as you can, and I'm going to write it down.
So we sat there and he said it 20 times, 30 times, 40 times. When we got to 50, he was. Started running out of steam.
And I said, so here they all are. If you want to do this again, just let me know. And that was the end of.
[00:30:15] Speaker A: Somehow satisfied his into a boring word.
[00:30:18] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. His mother's reaction was so height extreme.
[00:30:22] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:30:23] Speaker B: And so here was somebody who was like, I, you know, I can, I can take it. I can do it.
[00:30:27] Speaker A: Yeah. But it was in a. Contained.
[00:30:29] Speaker B: Yeah. You know, contained.
[00:30:30] Speaker A: Not like, oh, go ahead, say that.
[00:30:32] Speaker B: No, no, no, no, no. You know, no. And I said, you're a boy who likes this word, but other people really don't like it. So it's not okay for you to say it at school. And I'm going to help you, you know, find a way to, to, to let this go.
And that works. So that's, that's, that's another thing that you could try and you know, you just have to somewhat experiment. Most kids, this is not a big issue occasionally. And as I said, these kids are usually very bright, just really get obsessed on it and their parents are extremely embarrassed and frustrated. So it's, it's It's a. Yeah.
[00:31:10] Speaker A: And Situation.
[00:31:11] Speaker B: It's on fire, you know, and that's. That's appealing to some kids.
[00:31:15] Speaker A: Yes, yes. And I think that's why maybe some parents are choosing to ignore it because they don't want to turn it into a huge issue.
[00:31:22] Speaker B: Right.
[00:31:23] Speaker A: But again, I think there's a little bit of a balance, whether that's just saying, you know, this is a word that you can say over here in this room, but it's not a word that we say in public or this is a word that if you feel like saying that word, we can write it down. Or let's come up with some other words. You know, let's come up with something.
[00:31:42] Speaker B: And again, low key. Yeah. Matter of fact, not making it, you know, this huge thing.
[00:31:48] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly.
[00:31:49] Speaker B: It's very weird. There's just words that people like and there's words that they don't like.
[00:31:52] Speaker A: Yeah. I mean, I kind of like leveling with them in that way instead of turning it into this big moral.
[00:31:57] Speaker B: No, no, no. You never want to over moralize or, you know, punish or lecture or belittle a kid. It's just matter of fact, this is. This is how it is, and here's what you can do with it.
[00:32:12] Speaker A: Yeah. Cool. Okay, great. I mean, this wasn't a specific question, but I think the other question that I get a lot from parents around this theme, and I've actually had pediatricians recommend ignoring tantrums.
So I know we kind of talked about tantrums on the last episode, but maybe we could just talk a little bit about why not to ignore a tantrum. Obviously, again, the intention there is that, like, let's say you told a child that they couldn't, you know, have a cookie and they're throwing a tantrum about it and you just ignore them. I think the intention for the parent is that, well, if I don't give this behavior too much attention, I don't want them to think that this tantrum is something that I hate or something that makes me really upset. All of those kind of intentions behind it.
[00:33:02] Speaker B: But I think the first thing you want to do with that is decode it for the kid. Wow, you look really angry.
[00:33:08] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:33:08] Speaker B: And even kids that are not that verbal will either say yes or no. Oh, you're really sad.
[00:33:16] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:33:17] Speaker B: And you really want that cookie.
And you know how to talk so your child will listen. How to listen so your child will talk. Talk about giving the wish and fantasy, which I love. Yeah. Oh, I bet you would like to have a hundred cookies. How many cookies do you think that you could eat?
[00:33:36] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:33:37] Speaker B: And again, it's, you're not diverting the child. You're staying with the issue. Yes. But you're taking some of the heat out of it.
[00:33:44] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:33:44] Speaker B: And you're wrecking. First you're acknowledging the feeling.
You're maybe giving the wish and fantasy.
[00:33:51] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:33:52] Speaker B: And then the ending is. But you know, cookies are for after dinner and we're not going to have one now. And I'm not going to change my mind. I mean what I say.
[00:34:02] Speaker A: Yeah, well. And I don't even know like that you have to add that at the end. Right. Like, I find when you do the wish fulfilled ocean fantasy, you can kind
[00:34:11] Speaker B: of just take it and then depending on the situation. Yeah. If it's, if it's, if it's dying down, then yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's great.
[00:34:20] Speaker A: Yeah. But you resolve.
[00:34:21] Speaker B: Yeah, of course.
[00:34:23] Speaker A: Say that to yourself.
[00:34:24] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:34:25] Speaker A: And we're not. But, but yeah. And, and obviously with a younger child, it's just, you know, I, I see you really want that cookie. You're really sad, you know, you're. Or are you mad about it?
[00:34:36] Speaker B: You know, don't, don't tell how they feel because you will be surprised at
[00:34:41] Speaker A: what they, I like that.
[00:34:42] Speaker B: Shake their head at. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:34:44] Speaker A: But, but just kind of. But I think in ignoring the tantrum, that could send a message that, you know, maybe my feelings are not safe with this person or maybe they don't want to hear about my feelings when they're not happy. Happy feelings.
[00:34:59] Speaker B: Right.
[00:35:00] Speaker A: Which I think can lead to a whole course of problems as your child grows and starts to have, you know, bigger things and bigger feelings that they need, you know, hopefully need and want to share with you. Yeah. From things that might be happening at school to obviously the teenage years. Right. Like, we want to communicate to our children that all feelings are okay. We're not going to just connect with your happy feelings and the sad feelings. You're on your own.
[00:35:27] Speaker B: Right, right. That's very, very true.
My mother came from a large Norwegian family and their mother was adored, but her way of disciplining the children was to ignore them.
And my mother spoke so heartfelt about how she would be sobbing and begging her mom to speak to her.
And my grandmother wouldn't do it. And it was devastating to my mom.
And you know, we want, we don't want kids to, to, to have that experience. Obviously, like, I'm sure my grandma, that was the best she could come up
[00:36:13] Speaker A: with at that moment.
[00:36:14] Speaker B: But it can really. It can really have some.
Some very, you know, big repercussions for kids if that's how you. And. And the other thing we have to watch for, and this is the painful thing of watching your parent parenting or your teaching, is to make sure we're not rewarding that kind of behavior.
[00:36:37] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:36:38] Speaker B: I once had a group of kids that wanted to play baseball, and I had the bat, and the kid that yelled the loudest, I gave the bat to. And I taught 10 kids that if you yell loud enough, Bell Ann will give you what you want.
[00:36:50] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:36:51] Speaker B: So that's a. That's a painful but very important part. Look at what you're rewarding.
[00:36:55] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:36:58] Speaker B: And if you're giving in and giving kids what they want at those times, then you're maybe unwittingly, really increasing that kind of behavior. And the child's not. No child loves having.
Being in a tantrum.
But they'll go there if they think that somebody's going to give in.
[00:37:17] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And. And again, knowing that there's somewhere in between. There's somewhere in between giving in and ignoring. Right, right. And that in between is just being willing to sit with them in that and acknowledge it or sometimes use that, fulfill the wish and fantasy if they're old enough to do that. It can be a great strategy to just change gears without it being a distraction, but just being a way to help them use their imagination and fantasy to kind of get out of that stuck part of their brain.
[00:37:48] Speaker B: Right.
[00:37:49] Speaker A: But there are alternatives. And again, this podcast, we hope you're learning lots of alternatives. Please go back, listen to previous episodes. If this is your first time listening to the show, we have a whole host of topics and really our goal is just to help you feel more empowered and to enjoy. Yes.
[00:38:11] Speaker B: Being a parent and enjoy being with your child instead of, oh, my God, what are they going to do next? Yes. Walking on eggshells really, really diminishes any joy.
[00:38:21] Speaker A: Absolutely.
[00:38:21] Speaker B: We don't want you to be afraid. We want to give you tools and for your sake, but also for your child's sake.
[00:38:30] Speaker A: Absolutely. So keep listening and keep sharing this podcast as well. Thank you, thank you, thank you so much for listening to Parenting Matters, Real talk from toddlers to teens, where your personal parenting journey matters. And your questions are always welcome. If you've enjoyed today's podcast, we'd love it. If you'd like, subscribe, leave a rating and review and share this podcast with a friend. It really helps others find us and supports the work we are doing. To support parents near and far.
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[00:39:39] Speaker B: Sam.
