Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Hello, and welcome to Parenting Matters. Real talk from toddlers to teens. I'm your host, Rebecca Walsh, director of Early Childhood Matters in San Francisco, and I'm joined by my longtime mentor and co host, Belan Gioreto. Together, we're here to answer your parenting questions from the early years through adolescence. As seasoned and humble parents and early childhood educators, we. We bring over 50 years of combined experience in teaching, directing, and coaching parents.
We started this podcast to help you raise resilient, confident kids and teens and to give you practical tools that can increase your confidence, effectiveness, and your joy in parenting.
[00:00:56] Speaker B: All right, well, welcome back, everybody.
[00:00:58] Speaker C: Yes, we're excited to be back.
[00:01:00] Speaker B: We're really excited about this conversation today because we have had lately a lot of questions in the same theme, and I think it's something that Belen and I are both pretty passionate about as educators and so really excited to talk about this sort of perfectionist thinking that can sometimes emerge in children. And our questions that we've gotten are around artwork like when children refuse to draw because they don't think that they're good at drawing and so giving up really easily with drawing. Or we had another question in a similar vein around a parent who is teaching a child to ride a bike. And, you know, the child was just, after a couple of falls, was just like, I don't want to do this. I'm bad at this. And immediately kind of going to that sort of self criticism there and. And then another one around a child that initially is really great at something, like a parent that wrote in that their child was really at doing puzzles. And so they were so excited and they, you know, were giving them all this praise, and then all of a sudden they got to a puzzle that they weren't that great at, and it was harder and they refused to do it and then didn't want to do puzzles at all, like, ever again.
[00:02:15] Speaker C: I've seen that.
[00:02:16] Speaker B: Yeah. So kind of that. I think a lot of parents ask me, you know, I'm seeing this perfectionism in my child where if they can't get it right the first time, they really want to give up or I'm seeing that you, my child, to be, you know, able to keep going in the face of failure and do all those things and have that resiliency. But, you know, right now at this age, what I'm seeing is if they feel like they're not good at it, they just don't want to try anymore. So. Yeah. So I think as we were talking about these things, I think we had A couple of different ideas.
And I think, I think if you want to start with, I think one of the most important things.
[00:02:53] Speaker C: Okay.
[00:02:54] Speaker B: That you brought up.
[00:02:55] Speaker C: Yeah. I learned this through teaching, but also through being a parent. And that is that a lot of times we, in our great joy and love of our child, we can over praise. So we will gush and talk about how wonderful everything that the child does. And you see kids who look at you like, really? You really think this is great? And what I learned to do was to ask the child, wow, what do you think? How do you like this? Instead of rushing in to say, oh, I love this. It's so great. Because what happens when kids know that something they just did that is not indicative of their skill and you. And you gush over it and you praise it, that you lose a lot of credibility.
And then kids like, oh, you like everything I do. So therefore you're. You're really not telling me the truth and you're not credible. So I've learned it to engage a child. And what do you think? How do you like it? And kids are pretty honest. They're like, oh, you know, I could do a lot better than that. Or they're like, I really like it. And then that's great either way. But it's coming from them instead of you. Because it. It rings hollow if you're over praising. Not at all against praise. It should be very specific and should be very, boy, I love the way you use blue in this painting instead of, oh, I just like your painting. But that your job is not to praise everything but to try to engage a child to be critical and develop that sense of what they can do and what they can't do and not feel like giving up. Because the giving up is when a child is saying, I'm not good enough. And what happens is that as parents, our child is listening to everything we do and watching everything we do to learn about the world. That's their job. As an adult, many of us are brutal on ourselves when we make a mistake.
Right. When we do something that isn't, you know, okay with us, and we will say, oh, I'm so stupid, I did this, or, you know, this is terrible, and the kids are watching. What would be great is if we could model, oh, I made a mistake. And look what I learned from this. And so making a mistake is not bad. Making a mistake is the human experience, and you can learn a lot.
[00:05:13] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, I think those are two really good points there. And I mean, the second one around how do we talk about ourselves when we make mistakes? I think sometimes I've certainly forgotten that one. And it's so true that the way that we talk about ourselves becomes the inner dialogue that our children have about themselves. And so when we do something about, oh, man, I can't believe I did that. I'm so stupid, you know, or how did I forget that? You know, all of those things that teaches our children how they should treat themselves in those moments.
[00:05:45] Speaker C: We're modeling that unwittingly and it's not a good message. The message is don't make a mistake and avoid making a mistake, which is going to really limit their experiences.
[00:05:56] Speaker B: Right. And limit their ability to want to risk, take in whatever. Whatever field that they're going into. Right. Whether that's. Or, you know, whatever play at this age that they're going into, whether that's building something really cool or whether it's drawing or whether it's music. Like, if you are afraid that the mistake is so bad that the mistake is something that shouldn't happen, then you're going to stick to those easy puzzles. You're going to, you know, not want to learn, you know, try to draw something more challeng. Challenging. Right? Yeah. I think for me too, as a parent, I've learned some great alternatives for that negative self talk and have had to teach myself to like, treat. Treating yourself. I think one of the best pieces of advice I've gotten on this is like, what would you say to your best friend who just made that mistake? Right. And let's say, you know, you. For. Let's say you're going, you know, on a picnic and you forgot the water bottles or something and you know, your first instinct, oh, man, I can't believe I did that. Why did I, you know? But, you know, what would you say to your best friend that, you know, cut.
[00:06:55] Speaker A: You know what?
[00:06:55] Speaker B: You have so much on your plate right now. You're doing so much. You have these three children and, you know, here you are taking them to the beach on this beautiful day. You forgot the water bottles. Go to the store and buy some, you know?
[00:07:07] Speaker C: Right. I love the writing of Bev Boz, who says that the highest antecedent of self esteem is taking risk.
[00:07:15] Speaker B: Exactly.
[00:07:16] Speaker C: As a parent, that should be something you think about a lot because your child, as Rebecca said, will not be taking risks if they're worried about taking mistakes. And we need to remember how important risk is.
[00:07:29] Speaker B: Yeah. For.
[00:07:30] Speaker C: For your child's growth and development.
[00:07:32] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And going back to that praise, I think that we do. Really, when, I mean, I think it's so connected because when we over praise, then we can start to raise this little approval junkie, right, who is really looking to the adults around them to give them that feedback, to give them that praise. And so of course, if I get a ton of praise for being able to do these puzzles really well and really quickly, if you give me a harder puzzle, I don't want to do that pu. Because I want, I want that feedback. And now I'm stuck where I'm like, I don't want to try something really difficult and really challenging because what if I don't get that praise from my mom? What if I don't get that praise from my dad? They were, my dad was so proud of me at how fast I could do this puzzle. This puzzle over here doesn't look like I'm going to be able to do it fast. So I'm going to take a step back and I think that's, you know, that's where that praise and that overpraise can really, you know, in addition to what, you know, the point that you're making around over praise also being just, you know, non authentic children have the authenticity meter up, right?
Yeah, they know. So I mean, I think, you know, that that's another really important point. But, but also just if we over praise children over praise there, they may not want to do something hard where they're not going to get that. So I really think like risk taking and moving away from perfectionism. It has so much to do with how, how we praise. And maybe we could give some examples. Like let's say I come to you. We did the, the drawing one. But let's say I come to you and made this, this painting at school and I show it to you and I'm really proud and have a smile on my face. I say, mommy, look what I made in preschool. How do you, how do you respond?
[00:09:17] Speaker C: There's a wide range of what you can do. You can say, wow, you really worked hard on this. I can see how much time you put into that. And then that can be the discussion. And it's not to say that you wouldn't praise. You could say, wow, I love the colors that you used. I mean, trying to be more specific. And then when something is done just off the cuff and not really, and they're like, look what I made. And they're testing you to see if you're going to like it, then you, you know, that's a time again to say what do you think? Instead of jumping in and praising it.
[00:09:47] Speaker B: And I love that, like putting the question back on them. Right? Like, what do you. Oh, wow. You know, or sometimes if I can see that they' very proud and smile.
[00:09:54] Speaker C: I was going to say that child is telling you something that's great, but sometimes you, you don't see that.
[00:10:00] Speaker B: And you could even say like, it looks like you're so proud of yourself. And can you, you know, I think, can you tell me about how you, how you made this? What, what, you know, what did you use to paint with? And. Oh, I see that you, you know, you used a lot of blue over here and then there's this line of purple, you know, and, and the more that we can, you know, have this conversation with the child, I think it shows that were present and were interested.
That's self esteem building.
[00:10:25] Speaker C: Yes.
[00:10:26] Speaker B: Like way more than. Wow, it's so beautiful. You're such a good painter. Yeah, that feels like pressure to me as a child.
Right.
[00:10:33] Speaker C: Or as an adult.
[00:10:34] Speaker B: Or as an adult. I mean. And I always tell like I have this story about, you know, one of my roommates in college who is this amazing writer, but she had so much pressure on her all the time from everyone. And I think she didn't end up becoming a writer. And you know, lots of things happen in life, but I, I could see her almost paralyzed by that praise that she, and she just, she couldn't do it because what if, what if she didn't live up to everyone's expectations? Right. But you, I mean, you have an artist in, in your family, one of your sons, which I always thought, like I remember even when my children were very little and hearing that, I was like, oh, that's like, that must mean that you did something really, really well. I mean, that's, I think that's like the ultimate. If a preschool teacher can raise an.
[00:11:22] Speaker C: You did something well. Well, a lot of this came from, you know, from Chris, of course, when he was really young. And even if he didn't have a pencil or pen or crayon, he would lick his finger and draw it with his saliva so there was no stopping him. But yeah, creating that environment where you're not avoiding praise, but your praise means something. And like you said, it's genuine and you've taken the time to really look at something and look at a piece of artwork, let's say, and give feedback. Again, the more specific you're going to be, the better. Yeah, I think. But to engage the child with that. And what do you Think what were you thinking of when you made this?
[00:12:02] Speaker B: And I think parents get so confused sometimes about praise. Do we over praise? Are we under praising? To me, I think what we. If you think about praise from a self esteem perspective. Right. Like our goal is to build a child's self esteem. Well, nothing builds a child's self esteem more than knowing that you're seen. Right. And that you're noticed and that you're, you're valuable. And so when we give praise that says, oh, good job, you're such a good artist or oh, you did that. That's so beautiful, you know, versus, wow, somebody's going to stop to notice that I pressed really hard over here and that I pressed lightly here. And like, think about the colors that I used. And I mean that takes absolutely.
[00:12:46] Speaker C: And that's something that most parents can't find time to slow down and really stop and see something like that.
[00:12:55] Speaker B: Like that in the moment. Sometimes, like, it's much easier. I mean, I also think about the classic example of like the child jumping into the pool and it's like, watch me, watch me.
[00:13:03] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:13:03] Speaker B: And you know, as a parent, you have a couple choices. You can just be like, oh, great job, great job, great job, you know, for every dive, or you can just take that moment to notice one thing about it. Wow, you really kept your feet together on that one. Mm. Oh, wow. Your hands were in the perfect formation on that one. That one didn't even make a splash. You know, just like taking that extra minute a little more time.
[00:13:24] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:13:25] Speaker B: To just notice something. It feels, I feel so much more noticed. Right. I feel so much more seen.
[00:13:31] Speaker C: Yes.
[00:13:32] Speaker B: And it is, you know, back for that authenticity. It's so much more genuine. And I think that is where self esteem is built in those moments.
[00:13:39] Speaker C: Right.
[00:13:40] Speaker B: Yeah. And I think too, going back to the time, I think if we do take that extra second, that may pay off later. Like later in the, in the evening, certainly when the child isn't as like needy or clingy or whatever it is because they've, they've had a bit of their, their bucket filled. Okay. Well, more specifically, like looking at a child learning to really do a new task. And let's say, you know, it's, it's riding a bike and you know, they fall and then there's the immediate, I'm so bad at this. I hate riding a bike. I'm not good at this. I don't want to do that. How do you encourage a child in that moment who's already feeling so discouraged?
[00:14:16] Speaker C: That's a. That's a tricky one, especially when it's involves getting hurt. Yeah. And so I think you have to slow down and you can say, today's not the day.
We'll try it another day. We're not going to give up. But today's not the day. And not to keep doing something that you know is not gonna work.
[00:14:38] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:14:38] Speaker C: On that day.
[00:14:39] Speaker B: Well, and that.
[00:14:39] Speaker C: I'll.
[00:14:40] Speaker B: I'll slow you down there, because I think that's a really good point. That the pressure sometimes, like, if we're like, okay, you know, I've blocked off this day in my schedule, and we're gonna teach you how to ride a bike. And you know, in my mind as a parent, I'm like, okay, it's gonna be this great day, and at the end, she's gonna be riding off into the sunset, you know, so we do have to check our expectations and make sure that our. We're not putting this timeline or this pressure on our children. That is kind of unrealistic. Right. And maybe if we started the day with that. That lower expectation, maybe the child would be more successful. Right.
[00:15:14] Speaker C: I'm sure that the chances of that happening are much higher. Yeah.
And I think sharing stories about you when you were little and you learned to ride a bike.
[00:15:24] Speaker B: I love that.
[00:15:25] Speaker C: Are very, very fun for kids to hear. And that you didn't just get on the bike and ride off that, you know.
[00:15:31] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:15:32] Speaker C: This is what it took.
[00:15:33] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:15:34] Speaker C: And helping the child to figure out a schedule, for instance, how many times a week does he want to do this? What's going to be most comfortable for him? Giving him a little autonomy but not removing the pressure is a great skill. Yes.
[00:15:48] Speaker B: Yeah. That is so important. And then are there words that you would use in that moment if they said, I'm bad at this or it
[00:15:55] Speaker C: depends on the situation. How much attention do you give it? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't think you're always going to answer that. You can. I would make it a more generic. Today's not gonna work for you. I can see that.
[00:16:06] Speaker B: Yeah, let's. Or if it's the beginning, you know, even saying, like, oh, this. It's really hard right now. Right. And maybe we need to take a little break. Maybe we should have a snack and we'll try again or something.
[00:16:17] Speaker C: There's a lot of ways that you can go, but slowing it down, I think, is the goal.
[00:16:21] Speaker B: I also would say there's a balance between, like, backing off too much in these.
In these moments of parenting. Like, I've Definitely seen families where there was some resistance, let's say, in learning to ride a bike. And so they actually didn't know how to ride a bike until, like, third or fourth grade. And I think for me, that also raises a little bit of a red flag where I'm like, we do have to. There's a balance. We don't want to, like, put pressure, like, okay, today's the day. You're gonna do it or else. But I think if we give up too easily on our kids, it also sends a message that, like, they can't do hard things.
[00:16:56] Speaker C: Right. I would not give up, but I would slow it down maybe, and help let them kind of divide up how they wanted to do it and what would make them feel more comfortable if they. If you can figure that out. Sometimes you can't, but. Right. I think you can err too far on the other side of. Wow. This is. I don't want them to get hurt. I don't want any problem. And, you know. Yeah, just wait till your kids start driving.
[00:17:19] Speaker B: Oh, my gosh.
[00:17:19] Speaker C: Yes.
[00:17:20] Speaker B: Around the corner.
[00:17:21] Speaker C: This is a good lesson to get the bike thing down because more challenges are ahead.
[00:17:27] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And I think. I think it does send a message if we back up too much when there is that resistance, like, okay, that's okay. You don't have to learn how to ride a bike. Right.
[00:17:36] Speaker A: Or, oh, that's okay.
[00:17:37] Speaker B: You don't have to climb. You don't have to know how to climb a tree. I mean, again, we don't want to be putting unnecessary pressure, but I think there is this. We can be their cheerleader and say, I know you can do this, and we can do hard things.
[00:17:49] Speaker C: Discussion of hard things.
[00:17:50] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:17:50] Speaker C: And trying to find something from their child, you know, from their recent childhood, like, oh, remember, you couldn't climb to the top of that climber.
[00:17:58] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:17:58] Speaker C: You were too afraid.
[00:17:59] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:18:00] Speaker C: And now you can climb even higher and go down the slide. Well, that's what this is going to be like right now. It feels hard. And hard things can be good and hard things. We all have to do hard things. Even going back to when they learned to walk and how they bumped their head.
[00:18:13] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:18:13] Speaker C: Back up. But kids love those stories. Adults do, too. And. And I think that's a really important point to not just completely give it up.
[00:18:23] Speaker B: Yeah. We. We do want our children to be perseverant. And I think that's where, you know.
[00:18:28] Speaker C: And to take risks.
[00:18:29] Speaker B: And to take risk. I think that's where these questions from these parents were Coming from, like, I want to see them keep trying in the face of failure, but, like, what do I do with this? You know? So, yeah, I think that balance of continuing to encourage them and push them a little bit, I think it's important, you know, I think they need to know that they can do hard things. That they can.
[00:18:49] Speaker C: Absolutely. It's a very good point.
[00:18:52] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. And I think the other thing that comes to mind when we talk about I can do hard things is not over functioning for the child.
[00:19:01] Speaker C: We, you know, at school, we would remind the teachers to. And the parents when they were visiting to never draw for the child. And some parents didn't understand that and some teachers didn't. Well, I love to draw, and I could. I want to draw. And we would say, watch a table of children. And one adult starts drawing something, let's say a cat. And suddenly around the circle, after child after child stops drawing. Why? Because the child knows I can't draw a cat like that. Exactly. And the child will say, draw for me. Make it for me. And parents are like, oh, okay. And you know. Yeah, because they think, oh, isn't this nice? I'm having this interaction. But what's happened is you've stopped an entire table full of children from having that experience.
[00:19:48] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:19:49] Speaker C: So our rule at school, and certainly it could be at home, is that you don't draw for your child. You don't draw in front of your child unless you're doing something really abstract. And even then, I've seen kids say, do it for me, or building, let's say, Legos or blocks. Parents and teachers can love to make very intricate Lego.
What you need is adult play.
[00:20:11] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:20:12] Speaker C: You need to go do artwork and building on your own or alongside your child. Maybe the kid is looking at you. And if you're making a pirate ship out of Legos or you're making a. These skyscraper out of blocks, what happens? The child stops participating.
[00:20:28] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:20:29] Speaker C: Because they're smart. They're like, wow, you can do this. Do it for me. And a lot of teachers and parents don't realize that they're taking away that experience from the child. And the child knows, I can never do what you're doing, so do it for me. So just. I think it's a very good reminder.
[00:20:46] Speaker B: Absolutely. And I remember that. And I remember you kind of giving us the ideas as a teacher. If a child came to us and said, can you draw me a bunny?
And you would ask us to say, oh, well, what does a bunny look like?
[00:20:58] Speaker C: Right.
[00:20:58] Speaker B: And, well, do they have big ears or little ears and then you know they would draw some, some big ears and then okay, do they have a small nose? How many eyes do they have? You know, it ends up looking very abstract. Especially if this is a two year old who's come to you.
But I think in the end it's theirs and they can feel proud of it.
[00:21:15] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:21:16] Speaker B: And I mean I really held onto that as a parent. That advice and even with building because you know you want them to be able also it increases their independent play if they can do it without you there.
[00:21:28] Speaker C: Absolutely. That's your goal.
[00:21:30] Speaker B: They're not dependent on you to make, you know, to make the, the elaborate building but just like oh wow, you know, oh, you put the, all the red blocks on the bottom and I wonder what blocks you're going to put next. Or oh, I wonder where we should put this one. You know. And you know, of course sometimes you can offer some ideas for st.
Whatever but you're not over doing it for them to where then they're like okay, well I'm just gonna sit back and now I don't want to take that risk because I won't be able to make it look like yours.
[00:21:58] Speaker C: Absolutely. And when you see your child playing independently absorbed in their play, pat yourself on the back. That is your goal is for your child to have the ability to engage themselves.
[00:22:10] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:22:10] Speaker C: It's a lifelong gift. It's one that will never be be absent is when kids, kids learn to entertain themselves and to have that flow of play where they're just totally absorbed and they don't need you.
[00:22:22] Speaker B: And I think the less we over function for them, the more opportunity they have to get engrossed in their world. I mean I even like with play doh. I found if they want you to. Can you make me a snail?
[00:22:32] Speaker C: Can you make this?
[00:22:33] Speaker B: You know.
[00:22:33] Speaker C: Yes.
[00:22:34] Speaker B: I kind of had a rule I would just sometimes I would play alongside but it's like I'll only do something with the play doh. That I know that this age group group could do. You know, can they poke holes in it?
[00:22:43] Speaker C: Right.
[00:22:44] Speaker B: You know, can they roll it? Can they.
[00:22:46] Speaker C: That's right.
[00:22:47] Speaker B: But if we start going above and beyond what their ability is, then you do have like what you described, the
[00:22:52] Speaker C: shutting down and you can watch it go around a table.
[00:22:55] Speaker B: That's so funny.
[00:22:56] Speaker C: They all stop.
[00:22:58] Speaker B: Yeah. And I think it's translates to these other moments of learning to write their name or learning to write to ride a bike. If they've been used to this ideal of this Perfectionism being presented, then it's very hard then to. To realize that I'm not going to get that the first time.
[00:23:17] Speaker C: Right.
[00:23:18] Speaker B: So, yeah, I think. And I think in other ways, there's other ways to encourage that. That agency. Just putting on your shoes or putting on your socks. Right. If we over function for the child, then they start to not be able to trust in their abilities. How many kids came to school, My parents said, what, you got them? They put their own shoes on in school.
[00:23:40] Speaker C: Yeah. It's another example of creating time.
[00:23:43] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:23:44] Speaker C: Everybody's in such a rush. Of course it's easier for you to put the shoe on. Of course it's easier for you to put the socks on. But again, the child isn't learning a basic skill. So try to carve out those periods of time where you are not rushing and you're not thinking, oh, my God, I'm going to do this for you because you're taking forever. This is a little child that's going to take time.
[00:24:04] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:24:04] Speaker C: Try to make that time when you can. When you can. We all know how busy people are.
[00:24:08] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. But even expecting it, and even if it's just on the weekends to begin with, when you have a little bit more time, and we do have an episode earlier on increasing autonomy and an independent play, so that's something you could check out as well. But I think, I think it's really connected to this, this sort of resiliency building. Right. And not wanting to give up. You know, if. If from a very young age, if they struggled, we just did it for them. Yes, it does. Kind of as they get older, it becomes harder for them to have this idea in their head that if I'm struggling with something, I should keep going versus, like, you know, maybe I'm going to be rescued from this.
[00:24:51] Speaker C: Right. Struggle is good.
[00:24:52] Speaker B: Struggle is good. Right. Oh, and, and the modeling. Right. Like during our own struggles.
[00:24:57] Speaker C: That's right.
[00:24:58] Speaker B: Like, what are some things that you would say?
[00:25:00] Speaker C: You could say, boy, this is so hard. I really am learning so much. I'm gonna stick with this. Or, you know, things like that, saying out loud, the child's watching you go, oh, wow, okay. Struggle is good.
[00:25:12] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:25:13] Speaker C: Mistakes are good. Can you imagine, I was just saying to Rebecca when we were little, if we heard that from our parents.
[00:25:18] Speaker B: Right.
[00:25:19] Speaker C: You know, instead of, oh, mistakes are terrible. Struggling is terrible.
[00:25:22] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:25:22] Speaker C: Struggling is how you learn.
[00:25:24] Speaker B: Yeah. And I love that, like, because, you know, there are things like maybe we're putting together, you know, a piece of furniture or whatever. It is. And if we can model that, wow, this is really hard, but I, I know I can do it. I'm gonna stick with it.
[00:25:37] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:25:38] Speaker B: I think that those are such powerful, such a powerful way of modeling for our children. Yeah.
How are they going to talk to themselves?
[00:25:46] Speaker C: You will see a difference. Difference.
[00:25:48] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:25:48] Speaker C: You will really see a difference if you can remember to do this.
[00:25:51] Speaker B: I think you brought up the point about, like, even at the dinner time conversations, right?
[00:25:56] Speaker C: Yes.
You know, to talk about your struggles and your mistakes in a positive way at the dinner table would be amazing.
[00:26:05] Speaker B: Yeah. Like having everybody go around. You know, we. We often do like blackberries and brambles, but, you know, I'm imagining, like.
[00:26:11] Speaker C: And what is that?
[00:26:12] Speaker B: So blackberries and brambles, where we share like a high from our day or like, when they're little, we would say, like, like, was there something that made you smile? Was there something that made you laugh? Was there? You know, and sometimes you have to give them a little bit of some prompts, you know, like, oh, was it when, you know, you were playing on at the playground with your friend Sophie or whatever it was, but then they can start to remember it. And so that was really fun. And then we would talk about a low and talk about something that, you know, made us feel sad or something that was hard. But I love this idea of, like, connecting it to, you know, mistakes are wonderful opportunities to learn. And I found, especially as my kids got older, they love to hear like my birthday rambles.
[00:26:51] Speaker C: Yes.
[00:26:51] Speaker B: And, you know, like, they love to hear those hard things. And so connecting it to, like, oh, man, today I made this mistake and I was running late for something and. But it really made me realize that tomorrow, you know, and, and showing that growth mindset to our children, I think could be really powerful. So that could be a way to also, if you're really struggling with this, to bring it more to the forefront. Right. By having a part of a dinner time conversation.
And I think it does translate to those. Those more tangible moments. Well, thank you so much. We hope that this was helpful little nuggets on increasing resiliency and moving away from perfectionist thinking. And let us know if you have any follow up questions on this topic as well.
Okay, so I have to ask, did you really not draw for Chris?
[00:27:40] Speaker C: Good question. I really did not draw for Chris and he was so focused and so passionate about what he was doing, all as always.
And I think the things that I did do was I provided a lot of material, doesn't have to be expensive, but that there Was it was. And have it be very available and to make sure that he had also the time to really do this kind of creativity. And that's been his whole life up, even up till now. He's been an artist for over 15 years.
[00:28:21] Speaker B: Wow.
[00:28:21] Speaker C: And.
[00:28:22] Speaker B: And a successful one.
[00:28:23] Speaker C: Yes.
[00:28:24] Speaker B: This is one of his paintings behind us in our backdrop. Yes.
[00:28:28] Speaker C: And it's been so exciting to watch this grow.
[00:28:31] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:28:32] Speaker C: But you see what a very personal and very internal process it is and
[00:28:38] Speaker B: that you were able to nurture it. I mean, I do. I do think. I do think that's huge because, you know, it can. It can be shut down right away in families.
[00:28:47] Speaker C: Right.
[00:28:48] Speaker B: And that you were, you know, and obviously you didn't put that pressure on him to have some ideal of perfectionism that he could.
[00:28:56] Speaker C: No. You know, what we know about creativity is again, that it's very personal. It's very. There's no one right way to do it. And, and for those artists out there, you want to be supportive, but you also want to back out so that you're not, you know, sort of unwittingly giving that pressure that there's a certain way that. That it should be.
[00:29:21] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah. That's wonderful. I'm gonna put his. His bio in our. In our link so you can check him out if you want.
[00:29:30] Speaker C: Very nice.
And let us know your successes. I'd love to hear if you try some of these things out, how it went. Maybe it wasn't a success.
That as well.
[00:29:39] Speaker B: We'd love to hear from you. So thank you. Thank you.
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