Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Hello, and welcome to Parenting Matters. Real talk from toddlers to teens. I'm your host, Rebecca Walsh, director of Early Childhood Matters in San Francisco, and I'm joined by my longtime mentor and co host, Belan Gioreto.
Together, we're here to answer your parenting questions from the early years through adolescence. We bring over 50 years of combined experience in teaching, directing, and coaching parents.
We started this podcast to help you raise resilient, confident kids and teens and to give you practical tools that can increase your confidence, effectiveness, and your joy in parenting. So let's get real, and let's get to it.
[00:00:55] Speaker B: Foreign.
[00:01:01] Speaker A: Welcome back to Parenting Matters. Ban and I are really excited to be here with you today.
[00:01:08] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:01:09] Speaker A: And we are talking about a topic that we've gotten a lot of questions on lately, and new sibling in the family, big transition.
[00:01:18] Speaker B: Absolutely.
[00:01:20] Speaker A: So we're gonna answer all of your questions today around different feelings and things that come up for your.
For you as a parent and really give you some great ideas for this first several months of the transition.
[00:01:34] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:01:35] Speaker A: Okay. So our first question is, my older child is really missing me, and I can't help feeling guilty that I don't have the same time I used to have to spend with him. Sometimes I miss just being a mom of one.
Yeah. That is so hard.
[00:01:57] Speaker B: It is. It is. And the families that I've met with over the years, I see that guilt come up. The mother or the father or both feeling like they've done something wrong. They've done something that's. That's like almost hurting the other child. And I think that is the number one thing to address is to help parents move that feeling out of their family. Because you've just done something wonderful for your child, giving them a sibling.
[00:02:27] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:02:28] Speaker B: And kids can really smell and sense guilt, and it can really increase behavior that you don't want to see. It can make your experience of having a second child really uncomfortable and not fun and not happy because you're so worried about the other child. So I think the way to address that is to actually say to your child, wow, we're so lucky. You know, this is a wonderful thing that we're doing. You're gonna have a sibling, and. Yeah. You're gonna have different feelings about it. Let's write down all the feelings that you have and not edit them. Yeah. Some. Some children and it's temperament have big reactions. Some don't. My. My son, my oldest son didn't. He was thrilled to have a baby. But for those that don't, I think it's really important for parents, parents to work on the guilt, to talk about how happy they are and how positive it is. And there's a beautiful candle ceremony written by Jane Nelson from Positive Discipline. That is a ceremony that you can do with your family and you can do it more than once that I think helps the parents as much as the child, if not more so. And that is that the mother will light a candle and say that this light and this candle shows the love that I have for myself.
And then lights another candle. And this is the love that I have for my partner, another parent. And then this lights another third candle. This is the love that I have for the child, the oldest sibling. And then lights a fourth candle. This is the love that I have for our new baby. And then says to the child and to the family, look at the light. Is there more light or is there less light? There's more light and that light is love. And so now in our family we have more love, not less. And I think for parents who feel guilty to hold that thought, you are giving more love, not less, to your older child and really help reduce that guilt feeling because that's not a good place to be for anybody, for the baby, for the sibling, for the, for the other parent.
[00:04:41] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. And I think I love the candle analogy too because it does show and remind us that even though we may not have the same amount of time that we had to spend, like let's say with the older one now, they're going to get all of this time and connection and love with a whole nother relationship in their life. Right. So they end up like with a net positive.
[00:05:04] Speaker B: Right, right.
[00:05:04] Speaker A: Because. And that is something that also is such a unique relationship, something that we could never give them. Right. To have a sibling. And so it is hard. And I think, you know, in my work with second time moms over the last almost 13 years now, I think it's very common to feel like you miss that relationship that you had. And it's, it is. There is a transition, right. Going from just having one child and they're the center of your, your whole world to having two. But as you said, I think if we focus and let ourselves start to go down that track of feeling guilty that their whole world has been turned upside down, that you, you're not able.
[00:05:49] Speaker B: To be there for them, all the negatives. Yeah, yeah.
[00:05:52] Speaker A: Then it almost justifies that worldview for your child too, right?
[00:05:57] Speaker B: Oh, without a doubt. It absolutely makes a huge difference. And you're going to have to schedule Time for your older child so that you really are present and you're not multitasking. And it can be as short as 15 minutes, undivided attention, and build that into the day when. When you can. And the child is looking to you. And if they sense guilt and they sense that you're feeling bad about this, that that's not going to help.
[00:06:24] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. And I, I mean, I definitely remember this. I remember because my. My son did have quite a jealous reaction when Maggie was born. And then when my third was born, Maggie was exact opposite. Was just over the moon, excited. So, like, temperament definitely plays into it. But I remember when Joey was having such a hard time, one thing that I did mistakenly, now when I look back on it, was I didn't want to connect with Maggie in front of him because I felt like that would make it worse. That would make him more jealous. Right. So if I was, like, singing or connecting with her and he'd walk in the room, it was like I would.
[00:06:59] Speaker B: Stopped. Oh, boy. Yeah.
[00:07:00] Speaker A: And what I realized, you know, at some point was that that was really just reaffirming his belief that there wasn't enough love for both of them.
[00:07:08] Speaker B: Absolutely. And, you know, we all are on this journey and each experience is different and especially the temperament. But I absolutely agree. Don't. Don't hold that back.
[00:07:19] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:07:19] Speaker B: Because the child is watching you and can sense when. When you're doing things that may alert him to, oh, this is a problem.
[00:07:27] Speaker A: Yes. Instead of Mom's trying to hide her love, that means that she doesn't have enough and she's worried that she doesn't have. Absolutely, you know, absolutely. So I think, you know, and in the siblings without rivalry, they. They had a little section. And when I read that, I started shifting. And one of the suggestions they gave was like, if you are cooing over the baby, you could. Even when the older one walks in, you could keep cooing over the baby, but even incorporate the older one in it and start saying, like, and aren't you lucky? You just have the best big brother in the whole world. Did he find your passy for you yester? I know. Isn't he the best? Yes.
[00:08:01] Speaker B: That's lovely.
[00:08:02] Speaker A: Yeah. But I, I noticed that as soon as I started connecting with Maggie in front of him, instead of constantly like, okay, you take Joey, I'll take Maggie. You know, and it was like a divide, punker. Divide, punker. Like, they were never together. But as soon as I started connecting to. To Maggie in front of Joey and really, maybe more including him in some of those rituals. Like, I think even like one of my friends was like, oh, you should have him give a bath to Maggie. And I was like, you are crazy. Have you met my son? But we tried it and I was, you know, very specific, like, you can wash her feet and, you know, I'll wash her hair and.
And that started to develop a bond.
[00:08:43] Speaker B: Absolutely, absolutely. Yeah. You can just feel the difference.
[00:08:47] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:08:47] Speaker B: You just hearing the story, you feel the difference.
[00:08:49] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:08:49] Speaker B: With a child, it's going to be huge.
[00:08:51] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. They need to see us bonding with the baby. And then all of a sudden he was like, aren't you such a cute baby?
[00:08:56] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:08:57] Speaker A: Right. And he had to have that modeled for him.
[00:09:00] Speaker B: Absolutely.
[00:09:01] Speaker A: So I think that's so important as much as it's a temptation to divide and conquer and almost hide your affection.
[00:09:08] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:09:08] Speaker A: You really want to let your child know that just like the light of the candle can still light the next one and it doesn't go out right. It has space of more love. More.
[00:09:18] Speaker B: Yeah. So mantra more, more love.
[00:09:20] Speaker A: We have more love in our family now. We have more love in our family now. And, and that relationship that you're giving your child is, you know, is really important. I think the divide and conquer thing really leads to our second question, which is my 2 year old has always been a mama's girl, but now she is spending so much time with her dad that she is calling out to him when she falls or needs something at night. It is helpful, but I feel sad like I lost a relationship I had with my older.
I think, I think sometimes we do have, especially as, as mothers, this idea in our head that, you know, we're gonna. It's like love at first sight. And then like, we'll always have this amazing relationship with our child. We could never, you know, think anything ill of them. And of course what we realize at some point, and sometimes that point is when your second child is born, that there is going to be these, this ebb and flow. And sometimes they may be. If you have another parent in your family, sometimes they may be closer to that other parent they may need.
[00:10:24] Speaker B: This happens in families where there's just one child.
[00:10:26] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:10:27] Speaker B: It's not just if you have a second child.
[00:10:29] Speaker A: That's true. Yeah. And so kind of knowing that those things are cyclical and the child will probably have another time where they are mama's boy again. But realizing these are very young children, we're not going to take it too personally. We're not going to take it too Seriously?
[00:10:45] Speaker B: Yeah. That's something I have certainly heard a lot about. And I think what is hard is that parents then fall into the idea that the child gets to make that call and is in charge of those decisions. Who's going to read the story at night? Who's going to give them the bath?
[00:11:07] Speaker A: Get them out of the car seat?
[00:11:09] Speaker B: Get them into the car seat? I think very gently, but clearly you can say, this is a decision for the parents, and we both really love you, and sometimes it won't be the way that you want it to be.
[00:11:23] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:11:23] Speaker B: But I see parents giving into that and almost retreating even more so because they're hurt.
[00:11:30] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:11:31] Speaker B: You know, and. And, yeah, it doesn't feel good.
Instead of just seeing it as a phase, but to. To they. Then they lose the ability to make a decision, and it's all on the child. And the child's like, wow, I got to play with this one. This is interesting. Yeah.
And it's too much. It's too much of a responsibility for the child to have. And so gently but firmly, the parent says, oh, tonight I'm going to read you the story.
[00:11:58] Speaker A: Would you say, like, oh, I hear you want Daddy to read it to you, but say that now it's my turn, so I'm gonna read it.
[00:12:04] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, you can. You can acknowledge the feeling. I wouldn't go too deep into it, like, oh, honey, I know you love Daddy more than me, and I wouldn't know that.
[00:12:13] Speaker A: Yeah. I think really importantly, too, is not to show that that really hurts.
[00:12:18] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:12:18] Speaker A: Because as soon as you're like, oh, that really hurts Mommy's feelings before you just change your face and they can read it.
[00:12:24] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:12:24] Speaker A: It gives it.
[00:12:25] Speaker B: Put on your brave face.
[00:12:26] Speaker A: Yeah. And just like, you know. But I think that is important that they don't, because like you said, if then they're making all the decisions about which parent does everything, then the other parent, the rejected parent, is. Is really being sort of forced to retreat further and further.
[00:12:45] Speaker B: Well, they allow it.
[00:12:46] Speaker A: They allow.
[00:12:46] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's what you allow. And the child's watching you, and if you allow it, they're thinking, huh, okay, let's see. You know, not because they're bad kids, which is because they're smart and curious and. And interested in relationships.
[00:13:01] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:13:01] Speaker B: And so it's our job not to take it personally. These are little kids. There's good. This is gonna ebb and flow throughout your entire relationship with the child.
[00:13:10] Speaker A: Totally.
[00:13:11] Speaker B: And so not to make a big deal about it, but not to give into it as well.
[00:13:15] Speaker A: Good. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.
Okay, so our next question is my 3 year old now sees me home with a new baby and she doesn't want to go to preschool. Help.
[00:13:28] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, I think if you can, if you can carve some time out for the child to see what's going on when they're not there and, and have that experience, if you can do that, that that's I think helpful because most kids that are going to preschool really won't, will want to go back and be with their friends and have that experience, but they're curious like what's going on when I'm not here. Interesting.
[00:13:54] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:13:54] Speaker B: So you, I think if you can allow that to happen a little bit and you could go back and make another experience book with a child about going back to school and you know, showing what you are doing at home, which sometimes is the baby sleeping, you know, and you're.
[00:14:15] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:14:16] Speaker B: Sleeping also. Or whatever.
[00:14:17] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:14:18] Speaker B: You know, so the child knows. I think there's curiosity on the child's part and maybe some worry like, you know, what kind of fun are you having without me?
[00:14:25] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:14:27] Speaker B: So to let them see it and, but not to have a goal of when the child will go back to school.
[00:14:35] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:14:35] Speaker B: They know on the calendar when that's going to happen.
[00:14:38] Speaker A: Yeah. And I love that idea of like maybe even just explaining a little bit more about what happens during the day.
[00:14:45] Speaker B: Right. And you could do that in an experience book. Here's, you know, you're going off to school and here's what I'm doing and make it pretty boring.
[00:14:55] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. You know, it's not going to be as interesting for them obviously to, to be home. Right.
[00:15:03] Speaker B: Great.
[00:15:04] Speaker A: So our next question is my two and a half year old will hit the baby seemingly for no reason.
[00:15:12] Speaker B: That really hits my buttons and I've actually seen this happen with my niece's children and it was so hard for me to watch. I couldn't believe it. But the.
Her sibling would run over and actually slap the baby.
And I finally talked to my niece and said, you know, this absolutely has to have your biggest reaction and it's not okay at all. And she needs to be told that when she was a baby, no one ever was allowed to hurt her. And that was her. The parents job is to make sure the baby was safe. And in no uncertain terms, as firmly as you can say it, you are never to hit that baby. And I will stop you every time. That is not okay. We do not hit babies.
[00:16:03] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:16:03] Speaker B: And you may not do it.
But you have to show a lot of firmness and disapproval. And this is not a time to talk about feelings. Oh, you were so angry you hit your baby. No, this is just firm. You may not do this. I will stop you every time. You may hit. What may you do? What can you do? You can hit a pillow.
You can hit, you know, a beanbag chair if you need to hit.
Let's make a list of all the things that you can hit, but you may never, ever hit your baby.
[00:16:36] Speaker A: The baby.
Yeah. And I think that resolve. Right.
Is so important. And sometimes, you know, because I did have the older child that would. Would do this kind of thing. I think the hard part is coming up with that resolve. If it's happening repetitively.
[00:16:53] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:16:54] Speaker A: Right. And not getting used to that behavior or not letting it, you know, really remembering, like, just like this happened for the first time, like every time. And sometimes it may take a few times for the child to, to get it or to respond. But if we are that consistent and that direct about our language around it and not wishy washy and not like, oh, you know, we really don't hit the baby or we yell. That's the other thing.
[00:17:21] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. Or you over overreact. Yeah.
[00:17:24] Speaker A: Because that's like a jack in the box. You know, they were like, oh, that was an interesting reaction. How do I get that again? Right. But if we can just remember to have that kind of resolve about you may never ever hit the baby.
[00:17:37] Speaker B: Right.
[00:17:38] Speaker A: There is zero hitting this baby.
[00:17:44] Speaker B: And I would never let anyone do that to you when you were a baby or even now.
[00:17:49] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. And I think that point. And I remember you even telling me that when my kids were little, was just adding that. So it's not just, you know, I'm here to protect the baby against you, but it's more like, no, My job as a parent is to protect all of my children. And I would never let anyone bigger than you hit you. And I cannot let anybody hit the baby.
[00:18:14] Speaker B: That's right.
[00:18:15] Speaker A: And I protected you when you were a baby and I have to protect our baby.
[00:18:19] Speaker B: That's right.
So.
[00:18:22] Speaker A: So yeah. Just that consistency and the firmness of.
[00:18:26] Speaker B: Really meaning what you say.
[00:18:29] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I love that.
Okay. When I am nursing, I feel totally hamstrings and my older child knows this and acts out more than usual.
[00:18:41] Speaker B: Oh, that's a, that's a good. If it's possible for you to set something up for him to do or her to do right next ahead of time or. Yeah, like a Library with books. And you can actually nurs. Nurse and read at the same time.
[00:18:53] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:18:54] Speaker B: You could read to your child while you're nursing or something where you tell him a story about when you were little. Kids love to hear about that.
[00:19:01] Speaker A: Oh, that might be an interesting idea.
[00:19:04] Speaker B: You know, or have an ongoing story that you only tell. And this is a story that without a book that you make up, you do it in chapters so that the child is like, oh, it's time for another chapter of this book, and I want to go sit next to my mom. And here we have found school that when we tell a story, not read a story, the kids are just absolutely enraptured because they're having to imagine.
[00:19:31] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:19:31] Speaker B: And that keeps them very engaged. So add. Add that to your repertoire and try that when you're nursing to do a story. And it can be, you know, a story that, you know well. A folk tale or fairy tale. A fairy tale.
[00:19:45] Speaker A: Fairy tale. Yeah.
[00:19:45] Speaker B: Or you can make one up and kids love.
[00:19:48] Speaker A: Oh, my gosh. Yeah. We used to have. Not that I would use when I was nursing, although I love this idea. It's great. But we used to just have a bedtime story.
And I think for Joey, there was. It was about a cricket, and then for Patrick, it was a grasshopper.
I can't remember what. What insect Maggie had, but.
But it was, you know, the story of. Of cricket or the story of Grassy. And, you know, it's. It's actually quite easy to make up, you know, too. And it's fun. And it's like, you know, grassy, you know, finds a leaf. No. Goes down the river with her friends, and, you know, all of these kinds of adventures start.
[00:20:28] Speaker B: If you're a little nervous about it, start with something you already know that you have heard a million times, and then you can branch off to making up your own stories. And children love, love that.
[00:20:38] Speaker A: I love that it's such a great idea.
The other thing that I've learned from parents in my group have done is to do some kind of, like, imaginary play game that involves a sitting person. So one mom shared that she actually, every time she would nurse, she would tell her older child that her and the baby were a guest at their restaurant. And so she would sit down, and then the older child had to bring her, you know, the tea and then order the pancakes and order. And she said, I would really have, like, 10 course meals.
[00:21:09] Speaker B: That's.
[00:21:09] Speaker A: Yeah, that was great.
And then I would say, oh, the nursing basket. I don't know if you ever saw that Idea. But it's sort of like a basket of toys that only comes down when.
[00:21:21] Speaker B: Oh, that's nice.
[00:21:22] Speaker A: Yeah. And so it's kind of like your airplane toys, you know, like a little wet doodle thing and things that they're not in there every day that will. Yes.
[00:21:33] Speaker B: And only go down. Yeah, that's a great idea.
[00:21:35] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah, I like that. Be a little exciting. I'm trying to think of other ideas I've learned from the moms in my group. Well, one, I thought this was pretty clever. She would give her her toddler baby wipes and have him clean.
[00:21:47] Speaker B: Oh.
[00:21:48] Speaker A: So like, and he would like go to town, like cleaning all the base floors. Great tabletops. Like, I was like, that's a great idea.
[00:21:55] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:21:56] Speaker A: But, yeah, I think something that you can, you know, prepare that if the child is expected to sort of play on their own during that time, it's. They are probably going to be a little. It's sort of triggering for the child to see the moment, you know, on the couch alone with a baby. So try to think ahead. Right. And, and think about how you can engage with the older child or if you do want them to play alone. I find, like, sensory things are great during that time, like if you set them up with play. D'oh.
[00:22:28] Speaker B: And you're developing independent play skills, which are essential.
[00:22:32] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:22:32] Speaker B: It's like the greatest gift you can give your child is to be able to entertain themselves, use their imagination, use their curiosity, as long as. Not as long as it's safe.
And that. That would be the goal.
[00:22:45] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. And we have a whole episode on building those independent play skills, which may be a great one to listen to. As you have welcomed a new child into your home, you are going to need some independent play from your older child. But I do think the nursing in particular, it is a, sometimes a hard time to have that expectation and something that you can sort of involve your child in, like the storytelling or reading them a book. I also started telling Joey before Maggie was born that every time I would nurse her, I would read him a book. And so, you know, just kind of got him excited about, like, oh, when mommy's nursing, then we'll get to read.
But something they do need sometimes a little bit extra in the right. That's a great. Cool.
Okay, our final question here today is we are a two under two family. And my toddler loves her little brother, but sometimes too exuberantly, she will rock the bouncy seat super fast or shove the pacifier into her mouth or even squeeze her Cheeks when she goes to kiss her.
[00:23:53] Speaker B: Yeah. Similar to the hitting story, you know, the parent really making it clear that they are. Their job is to keep their children safe and to have a very firm reaction to when the baby's being hurt. This is a little different. It looks like the child's trying but just can't control themselves with the end up. Push the pacifier in the baby's mouth. But that's also not okay.
[00:24:22] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I think, you know, often it is coming from like, you know, I want to rock the baby. And then it's like, turns into this or, you know, know, just going into squeeze, but can't help, like.
[00:24:34] Speaker B: Yeah. So having something that they can do, that, too, is great. So to have a place where they can. Like a crash bash area where you just take your pillows from your sofa and set them up so the child can jump into them or punch them. You know, you can give them a different outlet, but not with the baby.
[00:24:53] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. I think what's important here, too, is to really help them learn how to do these things and become the expert. Right on. So you could, you know, stop them, like, if they're doing. I see. You're really trying to rock the baby. And it's so helpful, right? Like, acknowledging the positive, because it is coming from a positive.
[00:25:13] Speaker B: No, you could try that. But I think ultimately what the child needs to see is that you're firm about. About it. So you could certainly say that.
And you could make up a song that you sing about rocking the baby that is promoting a gentleness. Okay.
[00:25:31] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:25:32] Speaker B: Some warning, you know, some warning that this has got to change.
And you could even use problem solving, depending on the age of the child. You could say, I see you really want to rock the baby, but you're rocking her too hard. How are you going to solve this problem? You say that to the child and then you be quiet.
And it's astounding what kids come up with when they're asked to solve a problem. Oh, we have a problem here. You want to rock the baby, but you're rocking it too hard.
What? What? How are you going to solve this? And a lot of children, even children that hardly are just verbal, will come up with a really great short answer. Oh, I'll be more gentle.
[00:26:14] Speaker A: Great.
[00:26:14] Speaker B: Or I won't rock so hard. Great.
[00:26:16] Speaker A: Let's see.
[00:26:17] Speaker B: Let's see you do that and stick with it.
But that might be a time when you might use problem solving.
[00:26:23] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. And also the child then becomes the expert.
[00:26:27] Speaker B: Oh, I like that.
[00:26:28] Speaker A: So the next time somebody comes to visit, I would say, like, o Joey, can you show our friends how slow Maggie likes to be rocked? And so then he was like, oh, yeah, she only likes it when you go like this. She doesn't like it if you go fast. Or I would say, can you show, you know, our visitors how Maggie likes to take the passy? And I actually taking the time, too, to teach him that. If you look at. I'm going to teach you a cool trick. If you put the pac just above her lips, she'll actually suck it out of your hands, you know. And so teaching him that kind of helped to. Because I think they are trying to be helpful. They're, you know, thinking, oh, the baby's crying. Here's a paci. But they don't sometimes even have the fine motor skills to do that with the right strength. So just teaching them a few skills around that can be helpful. And then the squeezing, too.
Like, let's say they're, they're going to hug, but they squeeze too hard.
[00:27:19] Speaker B: That squeeze is too, too hard, too rough for a baby.
Show me how you can squeeze her gently.
And you're right there so you can stop them if it looks like it's going over the. I wouldn't wait to let them actually squeeze them too hard. But you can tell if that's happening. Say, oh, you. That's too hard.
We might have to wait for another day for you to do this again until you can remember that babies don't like to be hugged that way.
Or you could say, I'm going to give you. Here, here's another try. Let's try it again. And then if they do it, then it's, oh, there's no more hugging today, or there's no more squeezing or whatever it is.
[00:27:57] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:27:58] Speaker B: Don't be afraid to set a limit with that because most kids can control, you know, there might be a little bit of inability to control, but most kids will be able to control that urge if, if it's structured in a firm but positive way. I'm so glad you want to hug the baby, but that's just too hard. Babies don't like that.
[00:28:23] Speaker A: Yeah, just, I mean, again, I always love, like, the matter of fact sort of tone that you bring.
[00:28:28] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:28:28] Speaker A: Right. To this. And just saying, oh, that's too hard for the baby. That's not, that's not safe for babies.
[00:28:34] Speaker B: Right.
[00:28:35] Speaker A: You know? Right. And. But can you show me a hug that is more gentle, that's more calming? Can you show me a hug that Zoe Would like, can you show me a hug? That would be calm for Zoe, you know, and like, I like the idea of giving them another chance. Chance and then saying, okay, well, it looks like we're all done. We'll try again tomorrow.
[00:28:57] Speaker B: Right. So you end on a positive note.
[00:28:59] Speaker A: But a.
[00:29:00] Speaker B: But a firm note that that's not okay.
[00:29:03] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. Okay.
[00:29:04] Speaker B: And then if your child really has the. That need to say, you know, here's a place where you can squeeze.
[00:29:12] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:29:12] Speaker B: Or hit or jump. You know, anytime you need to do that, you can do it in this little area with the pillows, but not with the baby.
[00:29:21] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because sometimes it's, you know, they're showing you that they have a little extra energy that they need to get out.
[00:29:27] Speaker B: Right. Yeah.
[00:29:28] Speaker A: Okay.
Well, maybe just in conclusion, I think, and this kind of circles back to our first question on the guilt. I think it would be great if we could talk a little bit about, like, what have you in your work with children over the years and seeing children that do have siblings. What are some of the greatest gifts that you've seen a sibling offer for a child?
[00:29:48] Speaker B: And.
[00:29:49] Speaker A: And we can also talk about what the research says on that. But. Yeah. Like, what do.
[00:29:52] Speaker B: See, the ability to form another connection, which is the love part of this, with a child, not an adult, is huge.
To have the sense of being a part of a family.
[00:30:07] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:30:08] Speaker B: Is also very rewarding and can be very enriching.
The ability to get give and take as siblings without rivalry really emphasizes to not worry about equal, giving the child each the same. Oh, I have. If I did this for this one, I have to do it for this one. Is to lose that worry that it's not all the same.
And kids learn the give and take of that, which really helps prepare them for life.
[00:30:42] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think that is one of, you know, the hardest things to teach your child without a sibling is that they aren't the center of the world. It's so hard to not make an only child the center of your world. And so to be able to automatically have something else in your world that just really stops you from over parenting. Right. And from going down that track. It is really. It is really helpful. And I mean, even like, little things like having to say, like, the child wants you to. To play with them, and you're nursing and you have to say, oh, I really. I really want to play with, you know, magna tiles with you, but right now I need to finish.
You know, right now it's Zoe's turn, and I need to finish feeding her. And then when I'm all done, I'll.
I'll play with you. Right.
[00:31:34] Speaker B: So a little delayed gratification is an important skill.
[00:31:38] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:31:39] Speaker B: And again, can be a lifelong gift.
[00:31:42] Speaker A: Yes, absolutely. And you can flip that around too. Like, sometimes if I was playing with Joey and let's say Maggie was starting to, you know, fuss a little bit but not like she wasn't hungry or she wasn't needing immediate attention I would just say, oh, I hear you, Maggie. And I'm just gonna finish this little game with Joey and then I'll be right.
[00:32:02] Speaker B: Yeah, that's great.
[00:32:04] Speaker A: That really help those ways. Yeah, that's right. But it is. I mean, it's so tempting to always stop whatever we're doing. Right. To go and play with our child when they want us to play with them or to do this. And so we have to remember that because we're not there and able to stop everything in every moment anymore. It's so good for them. Right. They're learning that they. They do have flexibility, that they're not the center of the universe.
So those are. Those are things that we have to keep in mind as well. Yeah.
And those, for me, really counter. I mean, even. Even as my kids are much older now there are times when, for example, I mean, actually, this. Maybe it even comes up just as much in different ways. But, like, maybe two kids will have a different event on the same night or. Because I was really helping somebody with a project I wasn't able to be there when somebody wanted to talk about something that happened at school.
And I think sometimes you do feel bad about those things. But I try to really remind myself. But then they went and talked to somebody else about that and they figured it out and they built independence and resilience or they learned that we can't come to every single event, but that's okay. Yeah. Right. Yeah.
[00:33:19] Speaker B: And the other thing is, as hard as it is for you right now to imagine your children as adults, as a parent of adult children, to see the relationship between my sons is just incredible. Think that's another way of looking at this? That gift that just keeps on giving through the years. But especially as adults, to have to be close to a sibling is really, really special.
[00:33:45] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. And if you do have close relationships with your own siblings, to talk about those. Right, right. And to talk about memories when you were little or memories now and just sort of building that positive ethos around siblings can be really positive. So I think those are other things that we, you know, we don't always have control over the two personalities or the age or the gender and all of that, but we do have control over the ethos of our family. Yeah.
[00:34:12] Speaker B: Yeah. I think it's the thing that I'm most proud of about my, my parenting is the relationship with my kids as adults.
[00:34:19] Speaker A: Yeah, that's beautiful.
[00:34:20] Speaker B: Yeah, that really is awesome.
[00:34:22] Speaker A: Well, we'll have to maybe do a follow up to this and, and talk about how this continues as our children get older and what are some things that maybe you did to foster that closeness and some things that we can share as, as your children's sibling relationships develops. But thank you so much for listening. Thank.
[00:34:42] Speaker B: Thank you very much. And it's a great topic.
[00:34:46] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. Thank you.
[00:34:47] Speaker B: So we could go on and on.
[00:34:48] Speaker A: Yes. Thank you for all your wisdom, Belen, and you too.
Awesome.
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