Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Hello and welcome to Parenting Matters. Real Talk from toddlers to teens. I'm your host, Rebecca Walsh, director of Early Childhood Matters in San Francisco. We're here to answer your parenting questions from the early years through adolescence. We started this podcast to help you raise resilient, confident kids and teens and to give you practical tools that can increase your confidence, effectiveness, and your joy in parenting.
This is real Talk where we share multiple strategies because every child is unique and we always explore what to try when just nothing else seems to be working.
So let's get real and let's get to it.
[00:00:54] Speaker B: Foreign.
[00:00:58] Speaker A: If you're anything like me, you may have been raised in a family that didn't talk about periods, that didn't talk about penises and vaginas and all of those types of things that this generation is now so much more comfortable with. And we now know so much about how empowering it is and how safeguarding it is for children to have this body awareness and consciousness.
But that doesn't stop it from being.
[00:01:29] Speaker B: Really difficult when your child catches you.
[00:01:32] Speaker A: Off guard and asks you some questions while you are in the bathroom and on your period or noticing that you have different body parts than them. It doesn't stop those moments from being tricky. And today we have an amazing guest who is going to break these things down for us, help us to demystify and take away the shame of talking about our bodies, talking about the changes our bodies go through, and even the concept of starting to talk about sex ed in preschool. So I'm very excited to welcome our guest, Konika Wong. Konika co founded GPS Girl Power Science with her daughter to empower girls to navigate growing up with confidence. She is an author, body literacy specialist, and mom on a mission to flip puberty positive and reframe pubertal changes as superpowers.
Based in San Francisco, she has been a puberty educator and science teacher for over 20 years. Her popular children's books, One in a Million, a first book about periods, which skyrocketed to number one, new release on Amazon within 24 hours of publishing, and how to Tame a Tickle Monster, a first book about body safety, are designed for kids ages 4 and up.
Konika is passionate about starting these conversations early and breaking cycles of shame by celebrating growth. So let's get started.
[00:03:02] Speaker B: All right, welcome back, everybody, to Parenting Matters. We're really excited to welcome a very special guest with us today, Tonika Wong. Thank you so much for joining us on our show.
[00:03:13] Speaker C: Thanks for having me.
[00:03:15] Speaker B: Yeah, we're really excited to have you here. We had a few questions come in from our parents of quite young children asking about how to talk to their kids about some of these topics. Whether it was somebody had seen them in the bathroom during their period.
Things come up at such a young age. And I think it is so hard as parents because we often.
That's exactly when we're caught off guard.
Right. We may have in our head some like, okay, one day when they're in fifth grade, I have this conversation, I'm going to prepare for it.
But then we are caught really off guard when our three or four year old asks us a question or, or starts to notice that we have different body parts than they do.
[00:04:06] Speaker C: Yes, absolutely.
[00:04:07] Speaker B: And so that is where I think sometimes as parents we can be really unprepared. And so when I started to get these questions in, I knew exactly who I wanted on the show.
And I'm so glad that you're here with us.
And we will go ahead and jump in with some of our questions. And again, just thank you so much for being willing to answer and jump in with us.
[00:04:35] Speaker C: My pleasure.
[00:04:37] Speaker B: Okay, so the first question is this. My child is four and they are noticing that they have different body parts. They're asking mommy, why don't you have a penis?
Those kinds of things. So the first question is really, when should I start having these conversations and.
[00:04:58] Speaker C: How it's never too early and we have teachable moments all around us. Whether you are in the bathroom and they're noticing those things.
I always like to just take a deep breath because my family, my background, we didn't talk about any of this stuff when it comes up, if we can just name it, the more we do, the more comfortable we feel and the easier it gets.
And then they're native to these conversations. And it's very healing for, for us to see how comfortable it can be with this.
[00:05:38] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:05:38] Speaker C: With this younger generation.
[00:05:40] Speaker B: That's such a good point. And I, I'm similar. Like we never talked about these things in my family. In fact, I like didn't even tell my mom when I got my period because I was just didn't really know what to say or how to say it. And eventually I had to ask her to buy me some pads. But.
But yeah, I, that was kind of how she found out.
From a shopping list.
[00:06:03] Speaker C: Yes. And I was the same way. I mean I was making the pads out of toilet paper because I was so anxious to ask her, you know, and there's only so much you can do that that homemade pad situation doesn't work for her.
And so yeah, my mission is just to make it different for, you know, for.
It started out for my daughter that I wanted it to be different and then also for my students as well.
And when I reversed engineered these conversations, I realized that the earlier we start, the easier it is. Their questions are so easy and innocent to answer early on.
And then you're just opening up that door to show you are comfortable and that you are. That go to person that they can come to with anything.
[00:06:49] Speaker B: So yeah, yeah, I love, I love that point around it almost being healing for us to see how easy it is. Right. Because I think, you know, for, for our parents it seems so awkward, it seems so uncomfortable.
And then when we start having these conversations with our children, we realize, like you said, that, oh wow, it actually it's, it's so approachable and they're understanding it in this, in this way that I didn't realize it would be so easy to talk about.
I remember as a teacher we always talked about like answering the questions that were in front of us and maybe not answering a different question. Right. So just like really simply, you know, for the mom who is, is wondering about how to answer, you know, a question about different body parts, like what would you, how would you answer that? Just in the most simple way.
[00:07:47] Speaker C: I always have kind of a three step process in my head. It starts just that I take a deep breath because kids can really sense our comfort level with things. And so that it just allows me to relax and, and have a comfortable tone.
And then I always like to really make sure that I clarify the question.
So usually what gives me a little bit more context and buys me time for maybe a second breath, there is just to say, oh, that is a great, great question.
What made you ask that? And that gives me, you know, context. There's a, there's a funny story about a little kid that asked, you know, grandma, what's it called when somebody sleeps like on top of another person's body? And she went into the whole birds and the bees talk and then the child looked confused and he was actually ready to go to summer camp and he was thinking about bunk beds.
[00:08:38] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:08:40] Speaker C: And so, you know, when you, when you ask the context, it just really allows you. And then here's the third piece to this. So we took the deep breath, we said, wonderful question. What made you ask that? So that we get some context in our head of where, you know, what they saw or what sparked it.
So, and then the, the third piece is just to Keep it really short.
Pause and check in, because they will. They are so curious. And this is what I love about preschool.
You know, they, they're filled with so many questions.
So you answer just a teeny short tease of an answer, pause and see, like, what is their next follow up question. That way you're driving the conversation, age appropriately and developmentally into what they're curious about. And they're also satisfied that because otherwise they start to tune us out if we go into this whole very scientific, long, dry explanation as grownups, a lot of us do.
So keeping it really, really short.
I grew up in a generation where we talked about the talk and we imagined this like, sit down, full eye contact, long conversation.
But now we know better and we know about attention spans and that we have a million opportunities to continue these conversations. So keeping it short allows them to know that they want to keep asking you.
So.
[00:10:08] Speaker B: Yes, yes, I love that. And it is, you know, that I think, is the goal of these early discussions that we become a sounding board for our children, that they know that we're not super uncomfortable, that we're not like, you know, if we were to re, respond, oh, I, I don't, I don't know, let's, let's talk about that later or something. Right? Like, that gives off this, okay, Mom's uncomfortable when I ask her why I have a penis and she doesn't, you know, and so that is a very different message than just saying, you know, oh, like, I love taking the deep breath saying, oh, you know what, what makes you wonder about this? Oh, I, you know, yesterday when, you know, we were in the shower or whatever it was.
[00:10:54] Speaker C: Yes. And also, if you want, you can also buy yourself time and just say, because oftentimes these questions happen when you're dropping them off to soccer or to school and you don't have enough time to really get into it or you're a bit distracted, you're driving or, you know, and so it's also perfectly fine to say, this is such a wonderful question.
I'd love to honor it by, you know, at. When we have some more time, let's talk about it more.
Or I know the perfect book that would explain this so well and it has pictures to go along with it. Let's grab that book from the library. And so you know that. So that you can give that, them that undivided attention and also possibly just get the narrative that, you know, makes it a lot easier to have the conversation. So.
[00:11:44] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, my gosh. Okay, so can we Practice this a little bit with a question that I actually got a lot as a teacher because when I started teaching here in San Francisco, I was pregnant with my first child 15 years ago.
And I remember the kids would ask, you know, how did the baby get in your tummy?
And I remember as a teacher going, oh, my gosh. Like, how do I answer that? But I kind of followed this rule of thumb of like, okay, let's answer in answer the question that's before you.
And then giving more information as it's needed.
But yeah, so if, you know, I mean, I guess in that case it would be pretty obvious why they were.
[00:12:36] Speaker C: Asking, but it's nice to hear their voice. Like, they might say, my teachers, you know, got a baby in her tummy.
And then that makes it comfortable. Right?
[00:12:45] Speaker B: Yeah, that's true. Okay, so.
Okay, so it would be, you know, how did the baby get in your tummy?
[00:12:55] Speaker C: Okay, I'm going to start just by taking my deep breath.
That's a great question.
What sparked your interest in that or, you know, what sparked that question?
[00:13:05] Speaker B: Well, I. Because my teacher has a baby in her tummy and I don't know how the baby got in there.
[00:13:12] Speaker C: Yeah, that's great.
So there are so many ways, actually, that, like, babies can end up. First of all, the part. We have a very special part in our body that helps to grow that baby, and it's actually not our tummy. When we eat our food, our food goes into our tummy, but we have a separate part that's called our uterus. And our uterus is actually the strongest muscle in our body.
[00:13:34] Speaker B: And.
[00:13:35] Speaker C: And it's really stretchy, and it can grow when that baby is in there. And there's two special ingredients that come together to make a baby.
One is an egg, and I know we're not chickens, but we have eggs.
And the other ingredient is a sperm. And there's lots of ways those two ingredients can come together. And then I need to follow my thing of keeping it short. I probably should have kept it even shorter than what I just said.
[00:13:58] Speaker B: Yeah, no, but I love that. I mean, it's kind of answering the question in front of you and also doing some of that body literacy there. Right. Like, I love that you added in that piece of, like, the uterus is, like, strong and powerful, and, you know that positive. And I know that's you're so passionate about that in the work that you do, and maybe you can kind of share a little bit more about, like, how.
How you talk about puberty in this Positive way as well. Because we do have another question around.
Oh. In my family, periods were a curse for women. And there was so much talk about how awful PMS was. How do I paint a more positive view for my daughter? And so, you know, when you said that around, like, the uterus being strong, it reminded me of, you know, all the work that you do to create this more positive. You call it flipping puberty positive.
[00:14:57] Speaker C: Right, Exactly.
[00:14:58] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:14:58] Speaker C: Yes. So the teachable moments could be as simple as if you have a menstruator living in your household, then getting a really aesthetically cute box that stores your tampons and your pads. And it's not hidden away. It's somewhere where you know, it's going to spark that curiosity naturally.
[00:15:18] Speaker B: That's cool.
[00:15:19] Speaker C: And. Yeah, and then, you know, you start those conversations. But you know what? Even if you don't have a menstruator in your household, you can still have that and say it's for guests and still get into that.
And along with that, then, of course, that leads to, like, what is it for? What are these pads or tampons for?
And in my kids book, One in a Million, it's about periods, and it's for ages 4 and up. So it's a very simplified narrative to describe, like, what menstruation is.
[00:15:50] Speaker B: Can I. Can I just stop you and say how much I love that you have a book about periods for ages 4 and up. And I mean, is this the first book that.
[00:15:59] Speaker C: Yes.
[00:16:00] Speaker B: For this age that's been published?
[00:16:02] Speaker C: Yes, it is.
[00:16:03] Speaker B: Okay. And what. I mean, what. How did it start? Like, how did. How did you get inspired to do it so young? Because I totally agree that it's so crucial to have these conversations. I think there is still so much taboo around it. And like, you said that shame. And such a great example. Just like having those, you know, pads or tampons out in the open. Yeah. But, yeah, tell us a little bit more about the inspiration for that.
[00:16:30] Speaker C: So in all my puberty classes, you know, there are often parents that have, like, a preschooler, and then they might have, like, a third grader, a girl they're worried about, you know, when is her first period coming in? So many of them, the parents say, I wish I knew this earlier.
And that just got me thinking, you know, just like all of these conversations with naming our, you know, genitals with accurate, scientific names, um, equally, why not start this conversation about periods from the first time? You know, they have a question about it when they see us in the bathroom or they See us buying pads or something like that.
[00:17:06] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:17:07] Speaker C: So this is the same in the book. It's the same narrative that I've used with my second and third grade students.
And with adding the pictures, it's simplified enough that it works for four year olds. The unexpected thing is that parents are saying they're really enjoying sharing it with all genders like that. You know, little boys are just as interested and curious.
And another surprising aspect of writing a book like this for four year olds is that a lot of dads are saying this narrative feels comfortable to them.
And so, I mean, essentially what in the book it is, is we just, we talk about that we want. So we have eggs that were born with 1 million, about 1 million eggs in our bodies.
And that one day you'll release your first egg. So, yes, if you have a uterus, you're born with these eggs, 1 million eggs. And one day you will release one.
And from then on your body builds a nest and releases that nest once a month. And then I really wanted to take the squeamishness out of this idea of blood. And so there are three or four clues that lead us to guessing what this nest is made out of. And, you know, I just tell them that, you know, it's probably not like a bird's nest, you know, that's growing inside our uterus, inside our body.
So, and one of the clues is just. And actually it's an invitation for parents to take that deep breath. It's like, take a deep breath. And this substance that the nest is made out of, it sends oxygen to our whole body. And so that's one of the things it does.
Another clue is that it sends nutrients to our whole body. So when we're eating foods, thanks to this, this.
[00:18:55] Speaker B: Actually, before you go any further, this leads to one of our other questions that I want to jump in with because I feel like this is gonna be a perfect answer to this next question that we had, which was, my son has seen me in the bathroom when I'm on my period and asked if I was hurt and I didn't know how to respond. He is three years old.
[00:19:16] Speaker C: Yes, yes, that is the perfect question to tie into these clues.
So we now know that we have this nest that forms in our body and that it's released once a month. And if we go directly next to saying it's made out of blood, then, and which we can now, in the book, I have the clues that leads up to it.
If we go directly. Oftentimes the first thing people wonder Is, does it hurt? That's the most common question. I have this curiosity box in my classroom and the most common question you get around periods is, does it hurt?
And so if we can start talking about blood and maybe even like showing examples of when we experience blood that's not when we're hurt. So when we're talking about preschoolers, literally probably the only time they experience blood is when they're cut. You know, they have an owie or something like that.
[00:20:13] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely.
[00:20:14] Speaker C: But also, you know, sometimes they might have like a nosebleed and that actually doesn't hurt.
Or another one that kids can. Since I'm having these conversations with younger and younger kids, another one that they bring up is when they lose a tooth, you know, and what a celebration that is too.
And so that blood is not always that blood keeps us alive, that it's flowing through our bodies. Sometimes, like if our foot falls asleep or something, then we realize like, oh, we, we had cut off the blood circulation in that one area.
And so we can think of blood as just this very important. I always talk, I talk about having an attitude of gratitude, this very important thing that's keeping our bodies alive.
[00:21:02] Speaker B: So I love that because honestly, I've never thought of those examples before and I've myself been confused. How do you explain blood? It doesn't hurt. But I love the examples of, you know, the nose or the tooth.
[00:21:20] Speaker C: I mean, just in general, you know, like that it's in our bodies, sending oxygen through our whole body.
[00:21:25] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:21:26] Speaker C: That when we're eating food, it's the blood that's taking all the vitamin C and all the vitamins to the rest of our body.
[00:21:33] Speaker B: Right. Creating this like positive association. Right. The same thing that, you know, you're thinking about with, you know, the uterus being such a powerful organ, you know, the strongest muscle. I had no idea that was true, by the way. But I love that just creating this positivity around, around these things. And I think whether you have a boy or whether you have a girl, obviously for a girl, how empowering this can be, right?
To think of these things as something that's a life giving, that's bringing energy. But even, you know, also firmly, and I have two boys and a girl. Right. And I firmly believe that in raising boys to understand women in. And menstruation in a positive, empowering light is so important for, for boys and the men that they'll become as well. Yes.
[00:22:30] Speaker C: The first time I read the book was actually, even though it's for ages 4 and up, it was for a group of 6th graders in 6 Singapore. The teacher that asked me to read it, she worked with her here in San Francisco and then she moved to be a teacher in Singapore. And she said that the topic of menstruation is even more stigmatized in the culture there. But the first person to raise their hand was a boy, a sixth grade boy. And he said, do you mean I wouldn't be here on this planet if it weren't for periods? And I said, exactly. So I just, you want, if we could write, if we want that we can make the meaning something like larger than ourselves and then we're not fixated so much on the management. And I left like the management piece, the pads and the tampons out of it intentionally just for it to be this short introductory, you know, concept. It's not relevant to a three or four year old, like how to use a tampon.
[00:23:20] Speaker B: Right.
[00:23:22] Speaker C: And so we just kept it simple, which is this premise of, you know, the eggs and.
[00:23:28] Speaker B: Yeah, oh my gosh, that's. That is such a powerful story. Just this idea of raising a generation of children that can see puberty, that can see menstruation as this positive life giving energy. Right?
[00:23:45] Speaker C: Yes, exactly.
[00:23:46] Speaker B: And it goes back to that question about the mom writing and about how it was such a negative thing in her family and wanting to, you know, create a more positive, even though we, we may recognize it was actually the opposite. My family, like my mom never talked about it. And if somebody like I had a friend whose mom would say, oh, I have PMS cramps. And my mom almost like, oh, that's just made up.
Right. Like she didn't even like believe it to be true. And maybe she didn't experience the symptoms as much herself because I think every woman is a little different with that. But it was still like sort of a negative message to me that, you know, it wasn't even something that you should talk about or something that you should acknowledge. So. Yeah, how would you talk about some of those? Like if you are getting a headache? I mean, is that something you shared with your daughter like before, before she started her like that?
[00:24:41] Speaker C: So, you know, it's an interesting thing. I go back and forth with that. So in my period workshops, I have not necessarily included information about PMS and cramps, although the narrative, when you have a class of 12 students in the curiosity box, they've heard about it and I'm never going to ignore a question like that.
[00:25:02] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:25:03] Speaker C: And so it generally ends up getting answered through that. But I didn't incorporate it. And there's a. I mean one reason is that going back to that less is more that when they're coming to a workshop or these first conversations we're talking about that we don't really need to share like a long, long, long narrative. That's one of the reasons a second one is actually that just describing just what I said about the nest and the blood is like more than enough information, I feel like. And like you said, not everyone explains experiences cramps or headaches or other PMS symptoms. And so we can address those. The first periods are often anovulatory, meaning that you don't release an egg. And oftentimes there are no cramps associated with the very first period. That being said, when I do get questions about them, I want to just continue my very neutral tone of explaining without having negativity. Which kind of goes back to this question. Right. With all of the stuff if we can maintain as neutral of a tone, ideally, I mean we want to be honest too. And they can. They have like a radar when we're not being truthful. And also we know that our bodies, our human bodies have suffering. There are things that are uncomfortable and that we are going to narrate that and not hide that. With cramps, I just getting back to the uterus being the strongest muscle in our body.
And kids can usually they can relate to cramps. Like when you eat too fast and then maybe you try to go swimming or you run and you get kind of a stitch in your side. So I tell them similarly, when your body is getting rid of that nest, you know, it's kind of a big job and the muscles really need to work hard. And so sometimes we'll feel some cramping with that cramps actually. And this is that a lot of the adult women the that are in with their kids at the workshops are surprised to hear. But while cramps are really common, they're not actually normal. I know that's like a weird two different like the wording of it. But ideally they're preventable. And not for all women. Of course we know all bodies are different. Yeah, but through nutrition, I mean with my daughter, we.
We just increase the amount of magnesium in her diet right before she has her period. And for both my daughter and I, the more I've learned through this work that I'm doing more recently, I'm finding that even the worst cramps can be preventable. Even with my perimenopause cramps that actually I have much heavier periods and worse cramps dietary changes, and lifestyle changes can actually have a dramatic positive impact on preventing it. So that's. And that's a long answer, but why? I don't necessarily go right to something like explaining cramps along with the conversation about periods, if that makes sense. It's nuanced. There's.
Yeah.
[00:27:54] Speaker B: Well, and I think one of your goals is to start with this positive narrative. Right? Exactly. And really emphasizing, like, how amazing our bodies are, that they can. They can do this and, like, what potential that gives us and.
[00:28:09] Speaker C: Yes.
[00:28:11] Speaker B: Yeah. So I think that's usually where you start, right?
[00:28:14] Speaker C: Yes, exactly.
[00:28:16] Speaker B: And do you find that, like, that parents are pretty surprised in general by that. That more positive version?
[00:28:27] Speaker C: They are so surprised, like, if they're. If they're not. Well, so when they're reading this book, you know, they're like, so pleasantly surprised at how easy it was to just, you know, especially the younger they start, it's just.
[00:28:40] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:28:40] Speaker C: You know, and. Or if they're child just did the workshop and then they're leaving, they're just like, emailing me like, I was like, red in the face and looking down when, you know, I heard about this. And this is such a different paradigm shift.
So. And, you know, there is. There's definitely an impact. I can always sense of what narratives they're coming to me with. And I get a lot of, you know, kids that are just like, my mom says, this is the worst thing ever. You know, and then I have to. It's. It's like, it's a little more work for me to try to spit it positive because they are from their.
Their own mom. They've already have a preconceived, you know, notion.
[00:29:24] Speaker B: Yeah, but so if. Yeah, and so if you, you know, if you were experiencing those things as a mom, like, do you have ways that you encourage parents to talk about those things that can spin it more positively? Like, I mean, I guess just explaining, like you said, maybe like, oh, I'm having some cramps in my uterus, because, you know, my, you know, the nest is. Is trying to shed. The uterus is such a powerful muscle, and so it's working really hard.
Or I don't know if there's other ways that you.
[00:29:57] Speaker C: I mean, I think maybe even just like, neutralizing, like, all the times that our bodies don't feel great. Right. I'm sure they hear us, like, complaining about our back hurting and all that stuff. So maybe like, intentionally trying to make sure just we're not putting more weight from the lens that society has given Us of periods being this like just terrible thing. We, like, you know, my generation is a. Is. Is skewed towards that negative lens. So if we can neutralize it, just like anything, we get headaches, we get backaches, sometimes we get a belly ache. Right.
[00:30:31] Speaker B: And.
[00:30:32] Speaker C: And it's just one of those things. And. And then maybe it's like our reaction to it that we can model, which is such a powerful thing just to model that. I need rest. I'm gonna rest. I'm gonna listen to my body. It needs rest. Now we know in our luteal phase, before our period, that if we really are living cyclically. Cyclically, that we give our bodies rest, we drink more water, hot tea, blankets, reading a book. Let's just model that. Right?
[00:31:01] Speaker B: I love that.
[00:31:02] Speaker C: And what a positive spin that is. I mean, here it's something like cramps, but we're so spinning at putting up those boundaries, those healthy boundaries. If this is the time when I'm going to read a book and I hear of families, you know, with sons and daughters that know about this because they talk so openly that they'll bring the breakfast in bed to their mom because they know, like, this is a time when, you know, she needs rest.
[00:31:23] Speaker B: Mm, I love that. And almost like creating some built in self care rituals around the menstruation, instead of it being something I have to suffer through, it's like, ooh, something I could look forward to as, you know, getting breakfast in bed or just having some more cozy time on the couch or something. Yeah, yeah.
[00:31:42] Speaker C: My daughter and I, we, we bake brownies. But I could have started that when she was a preschooler and then she would know and what a positive association she'd have. Like, oh, my period's coming up, I'm gonna bake some brownies. And like, what a normalized way to just talk about it. My body needs chocolate right now. It has magnesium and it helps with cramps.
[00:32:00] Speaker B: That's awesome. Yes. That's like. That would be a great little ritual to start at any age. Yes. Okay, so the next question around body literacy and something else that I know you're really passionate about, around helping children to have healthy boundaries. And I know your second book, how to Tame a Tickle Monster, is really around these goals of giving children agency in their own bodies.
So. Yeah, so maybe this could be a question you could answer. It's heard that using correct anatomical names for penis, vagina, vulva and etc can protect against abuse, but my husband is really uncomfortable with these terms. Any advice?
[00:32:47] Speaker C: I mean, you know, with my own husband, there is a ying and yang, like, with things that I'm comfortable with. Often he's uncomfortable and vice versa. So I think, like, we fill in.
Above all, we want to be comfortable with what we're saying, because kids have a radar, and it's better to use the language that is comfortable.
[00:33:09] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:33:09] Speaker C: You know, my family is from India, and just from a cultural perspective, like, we actually. We used the Indian words, you know, that are really very different than vulva and penis, the Bengali words.
And so whatever comes comfortably. I think the most important thing is naming, giving a name.
[00:33:27] Speaker B: Right.
[00:33:27] Speaker C: We don't want to.
And that's the empowerment piece that prevents that abuse, is that they know that just like we have an elbow and, you know, and we have a brain and a nose and a mouth, and, you know, with my preschoolers, sometimes we even sing, like, head, shoulders, knees, and bulba. Knees and bulba.
[00:33:48] Speaker B: Oh, my gosh, I can't imagine.
[00:33:52] Speaker C: And, you know, and we're just getting lots of giggles out, which is great In. In the Tickle Monster book. I do actually also acknowledge this piece that kind of ties into this question, which is listening to our bodies when we say penis or vulva, that. And in the book, the character gets, you know, really flushed because they're very embarrassed that. That actually to listen to our bodies and that that reaction is protecting ourselves. And so to thank our bodies for that. And if we ever feel that in, you know, outside of the context of hearing the word penis and vulva in this kid's book, to listen to that.
And I. I think that that's a really good spin because, you know, in my classes, when we talk about this stuff inherently, I get nervous laughter, and we talk about what nervous laughter is, that it's not my students being disrespectful, it's just that their bodies are feeling uncomfortable. And it's usually like this. This perfect teachable moment when there's nervous laughter when we say those words that, you know, we can just say our bodies are protecting us. These are really sensitive parts of our bodies. These are, you know, parts of our body that are hidden behind our clothes. So we don't see them very often. We see them, you know, when we take a shower or a bath or when we use the toilet.
But, you know, explaining and normalizing that, it works as a teachable moment. So.
And pushing through, you know, being vulnerable with our kids can be so powerful. So, like, with my daughter, if something's uncomfortable for me, then I'll narrate That and say, my parents didn't talk about this, so this is really uncomfortable for me. And then, you know, it's just showing that I'm trying my best, but that, and also actually normalizing that in our culture or in our society, these aren't like dinner table conversations. Like, we're not just going to say, plus the peas and by the way, my penis.
And even preschoolers get it, you know, that we're not like, we talk about potty talk with preschoolers.
And it's that fine line of. That balance. Right. Of being really comfortable sharing about our bodies, but also knowing there are some topics that, you know, I mean, are.
[00:36:17] Speaker B: Appropriate in different scenarios. Right. And, and with different people, you know.
[00:36:23] Speaker C: Exactly.
[00:36:25] Speaker B: Yeah. And I think that is important to communicate to children around those kinds of boundaries as well.
And why, you know, why do we not go outside naked or, you know, and explaining to them this is something that we, we do cover in our public lives because this is something that is. Do you use the word private part? What is your.
[00:36:53] Speaker C: Yeah, so I use middle parts. And the reason is that I say that our whole body, from our head to our toes, is, is private. And the more you realize, like, why not just explain that we have boundaries in our whole body? And actually, what goes even beyond that, in the book, I talk about our personal space bubble, that when someone invades your personal space bubble, it can even be like the tone of voice that they use or the, the way they're looking at you. And so what we're really trying to do is get away from the narrative, the old school narrative about stranger danger, and instead empower that intuition that trusting our gut that something's off and that you'll never get in trouble if you sense that something, you know, is off and you have that uncomfortable feeling.
And then it's always helpful to talk to your trusted grownup about any of this stuff.
So. But, you know, private parts, those are definitely a commonly used term. So I, when I talk about middle parts, I say, and some people call them private parts. And they are, they are private. Our whole body is private. So it's not like a wrong term to use. It's correct. And we again want to just use what comes out most, most comfortably, I.
[00:38:06] Speaker B: Guess, as far as maybe going into a little bit more detail around, like, why is it important to, to name those parts for our children and how does that protect them from abuse? I think is a common question I know I've gotten before.
[00:38:20] Speaker C: Yes. I mean, I think it just is a direct correlation to their Confidence A and B, that we've talked about, that these are personal and private parts, including all the other parts too.
But that when someone who's trying to groom or someone who might be a predator sees that a child knows these names, then they inherently know that they are educated, that they are having these conversations comfortably with their trusted grownups.
And it's probably a red flag to them, a warning that they're going to have the word to be able to speak up about it. Because all too often it's that silence because it can be very, very confusing. And so if we arm them from these young ages, as young as three or four, the understanding that they should listen to their body, trust their body when they feel uncomfortable, until a trusted grown up.
[00:39:24] Speaker B: Right.
[00:39:24] Speaker C: Then in that moment of confusion, it'll still be very confusing because it just is.
[00:39:30] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:39:30] Speaker C: All we need is for them to speak up about it. And if they have the words, you know, they're more likely.
[00:39:37] Speaker B: Yeah. And if they knew that their parent was comfortable enough to name those parts for them, that they, those parts were given a name, they were, you know, they were called, they were told that was their penis, that was their vulva, that was their vagina. And so they know that, okay, this is something even though this isn't a part that is, you know, like you said, always out in the open, that is, you know, it is a part that isn't seen as much or it is, you know, they kind of inherently know that it's sort of a covered part, but they know that mom or dad is comfortable, that they've named it for me, that these are, these are parts that I can talk about. Right? Yes, but, yeah, but also that added layer of sending a message to the predator. Because we know that sexual abuse is usually not this random occurrence. Right. It's somebody that is slowly grooming, you know, usually somebody that the family knows or that the child has ongoing contact with. Right. And it's a grooming process. It's, you know, hardly ever at this age, some, you know, random occurrence with a stranger in that process. It sends a very strong message to, to somebody.
[00:40:50] Speaker C: Yes.
[00:40:51] Speaker B: That this child is competent, that they're talking to their parents. They seem to know.
And, and that's, that's, that's really important. Yes, for sure.
[00:41:00] Speaker C: Absolutely. We just want them to be comfortable coming to us.
[00:41:05] Speaker B: Yeah. Cool.
Well, gosh, we, I feel like we covered so much around body autonomy and safety, but also on how to begin to flip this narrative of positive puberty and to see this as something that we can embrace and really celebrate, right?
[00:41:27] Speaker C: Yes, exactly. Our bodies are always changing and we're just grateful when they're healthy and growing.
[00:41:33] Speaker B: Awesome. Thank you so much for this. This was so wonderful. If people do want to find out more, what is the best way for them to learn more from you?
[00:41:43] Speaker C: Monica, you can find us on Instagram at Girl Power Science as well as our website is Girl powerscience Dot.
And we do work with all genders as well, so. Yes.
[00:41:55] Speaker B: Awesome. And your books, if you want to just give us the names of your book, we'll definitely put them in the show notes as well.
[00:42:02] Speaker C: Yes.
So there's one in a million. A first book about periods for ages 4 and up and then how to tame a tickle monster. A first book about body safety.
[00:42:14] Speaker B: Amazing. Yes. Thank you so much. We'll put all of those links in our show notes.
And thank you so much again for tackling, you know, sometimes these taboo questions and you always answer them with such confidence and grace. And I think really empower parents as they're listening to be able to respond.
I know every time I hear you, I'm like, more inspired to talk to my children in this way. That is just so more matter of fact and, and, and positive. Right. And so thank you.
[00:42:48] Speaker C: Thanks for having me.
[00:42:49] Speaker B: Yeah. Thank you.
[00:42:53] Speaker A: Thank you so much for listening to Parenting Matters. Real talk from toddlers to teens where your personal parenting journey matters and your questions are always welcome. If you've enjoyed today's podcast, we'd love it. If you'd like, subscribe, leave a rating and review and share this podcast with a friend. It really helps others find us and supports the work we are doing to support parents near and far. Check out the show notes, leave your parenting questions in the comments or head to our dedicated webpage earlychildhoodmatters.org podcast. There you can find even more resources and ways to stay connected.
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Shout out to my teenager Joey for continuing to follow his passions in piano and music production and for creating the music for this podcast.
